I Don't Support the Troops

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I was there though, and I watched the jet come in (sitting abreast of the pentagon on the route 1 Bridge). It was unreal, and unbelievable. Yet it happened...I had to pull over and get out of my truck to watch what was happening. And I still couldn't believe it. The amazing thing is that the plane hit the ONLY reinforced part of the Pentagon, that had just been completed. Apparently the reinforcement worked.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

Wow, that's amazing! So you actually saw a jetliner impact the pentagon? I wonder where all the debris went. Did you see that unusual manuever the jet pulled off just prior to impact?

Like I said, I don't have answers, just a lot of questions.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Wow, that's amazing! So you actually saw a jetliner impact the pentagon? I wonder where all the debris went. Did you see that unusual manuever the jet pulled off just prior to impact?

Like I said, I don't have answers, just a lot of questions.

Chris

So do I, and I wasn't the only person on that bridge Chris (there were accidents because of it). There was a weird winding sound, followed by a fireball, and the sound of a million trash cans being slammed into (for lack of a better term). The strange winding sound (like engines going full throttle), is what got my attention, because it was so loud, and Reagan National is a few miles away. It was a sound that didn't make sense in the normal day to day life in DC.

That stuff happened so fast, I heard something weird (and loud), I looked to the left (towards the sound), and there was something, and then a fire ball, then cars gone, and whoa "sh*t" ! watch the road you idiot!.. then stop, and get out and look and wonder, and a kind of shock. Then you hear "crunch", as cars pop other cars from behind, and thinking "get out of the way".

Everybody stopped eventually (on the bridge). And for a moment time stood still. We just watched in awe. And do you know what we thought? Damn a plane lost control, and the pilot was desperately trying to make for the Anacostia river, and didn't make it (wouldn't be the first time). That is what we thought. Then my cell phone rang and it was my wife "where are you?" In DC, I said. a plane just hit the pentagon...then she told me about New York.

Strange sound, then fireball, then aftermath, and fender benders, then cops screaming by, then one stopping and directing traffice to move on (though his heart wasn't in it).

What bothers me more than anything Chris, is while the military knuckled down on their bases around the area, Congress vacated and scattered like cockroaches. They could have gone to a safe house (we know they have one), but no, the little cowards went to save their own skins, while fire teams and Law Enforcement scrambled to the scene. Pathetic little people that they are, they (Senate and House) ran. Oh there were some that refused to leave, but you won't like the count of those (all republicans, hmmm two democrats).

Then, the little *******s stayed gone for weeks (some of them). Shut down a national airport, had gheshtopo type barricades errected in the Capital, and closed off Pennsylvania Avenue (part of). They disgust me.

National security, my ass. Personal security is more like it. Ain't a none of them worth the salary we pay them.

Ok, I've ranted enough. Obviously I love my country, and my people, but I don't have to be happy with the caliber of clowns we have running it. You have to remember my friend, that the president is not the law maker. He/She is the executor. Your "fools" are sitting in the legistative and judicial branches. And right now, I don't see many wise, nor courageous types, holding those positions.

I think I've said much more than I should have, so I'll stop here.

v/r

Q

[Tao_Equus]

Lmao, yeh the president was on a sabatical and was too busy in school reading his ABC book

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Lmao, yeh the president was on a sabatical and was too busy in school reading his ABC book

No sir, he wasn't...

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No sir, he wasn't...

Sorry Qahom, could'nt resist it

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Sorry Qahom, could'nt resist it

...

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Lmao, yeh the president was on a sabatical and was too busy in school reading his ABC book

READ? TE, what are you thinkin!? You are far too kind ...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by taijasi

READ? TE, what are you thinkin!? You are far too kind ...

I personally think that was rude. But what does that matter to you

[China Cat Sunflower]

I deeply appreciate you sharing your experience with me Q.

All I really want at this point is a return to divided government. One party shouldn't control both houses and the executive. I'm a lifelong Democrat, but I don't want monolithic government under my party either. There's no meaningful oversight that way, and that's a proven recipe for corruption.

BTW, if Hillary is the Dem nominee in '08 I'm gonna slit my wrists.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I deeply appreciate you sharing your experience with me Q.

All I really want at this point is a return to divided government. One party shouldn't control both houses and the executive. I'm a lifelong Democrat, but I don't want monolithic government under my party either. There's no meaningful oversight that way, and that's a proven recipe for corruption.

BTW, if Hillary is the Dem nominee in '08 I'm gonna slit my wrists.

Chris

Hmmm. that would be nice. Your point about reurning to a divided government...(don't slit your wrists).

Clintons only win in twos, not threes.

Besides her last name isn't Clinton, it's Rodem...

v/r

Q

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I personally think that was rude. But what does that matter to you

I think it's better than just saying that that dope is a crack-sniffin', drunk drivin', AWOL sob who can't even run a business successfully, much less a country. Then again, let's just speak frankly, and stop pretending that smirky can even read a queue-card correctly!

No, I'll happily go along with your condemnation of most of our senators and congressmen as being self-centered, greedy, cowardly dopes! But let's not stop short! Puppet-boy just takes the cake, with his arrogance, his nonchalant attitude of self-righteousness, and his butchering of the english language (much less any other languages!) ...

You know, like in his, umm, State of the, I mean the Speech to, oh you know, whatever it was ...

dear god, help us all ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's part of an email recently sent to me by a good friend. It made me groan, even though I didn't hear the news broadcast in question ...

"I stopped thinking about the whole matter when our President intoned in his unctuous Presidential way that "the jury convicted him for life to life imprisonment." It was so non-fluent that I pulled over to the shoulder and wrote his words down. This is a graduate of Yale Law School, and he should have enough command of the language and law to know that the jury sentenced him (not convicted him at this point) and that one lifetime is sufficient. What a sound byte! That man should never be let loose from his tether."

Sincerely ... andrew

[Quahom1]

aww, forget it.

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I was there though, and I watched the jet come in (sitting abreast of the pentagon on the route 1 Bridge). It was unreal, and unbelievable. Yet it happened...I had to pull over and get out of my truck to watch what was happening. And I still couldn't believe it. The amazing thing is that the plane hit the ONLY reinforced part of the Pentagon, that had just been completed. Apparently the reinforcement worked.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

Your first thoughts were "Oscar Mike Golf. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot," (or something like that, correct?) They were the thoughts of a gentleman I know who was within three blocks of the Twin Towers when they went down.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Hi Brian,
this idea that the Iran is years away developing a nuclear weapon I have to disagree with. The reactor supplied to it by the US in 1969 has already produced enough plutonium for a 200kiloton weapon.

If this is really the case, then why does it take 35 years for the US to decide this is actually a bad idea - especially when Iran has never had a positive relationship with the US since the Iranian Revolution - Iran brought down Carter, Reagan supplied Saddam Hussein against Tehran - yet somewhere around all of this, the US 'forgot' that Iran was sitting on a nuclear reactor capable of producing weapon's grade Plutonium? I'm sorry, I don't buy that.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

In June 2003 the IAEA after 3 months of denials was finaly allowed access to 2 sites at which traces of highly enriched 'weapons grade' uranium was found.

I remember the news report - but I believe this was traced to equipment supplied by nuclear weapons producer Pakistan:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4180286.stm

Also, as to estimates on Iranian nuclear arms development:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4606356.stm

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

In addition all precedents for a nation,( India, Pakistan and Israel for example), going down an enrichment program such as this have led to them subsequently possesing nuclear weapons.

I actually don't disagree with this - that any nuclear-powered country will inevitably develop goals for the development of nuclear arms. And I agree that nuclear proliferation is not a good idea.

What I object to is Washington trying to spin the issue as Iran being literally on the verge of having nuclear weapons ready to fire on Israel.

Saddam Hussein was "proven" to have WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION to justify the invasion of Iraq. We've been seeing similar attempts to justify action against Iran for years, not least claims that Iran is protecting Al Qaeda (as did Saddam Hussein, according to the same reports).

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The political language coming from Tehran is not peaceable. Holocaust denial, the national aim to eradicate Israel,

This is old-talk, though - recognition of Israel's right to exist has been a problem with Arab governments for decades. Iran has been strong in this message certainly since the Iranian Revolution in the 70's. It's not new, but it's certainly been seized upon recently to demonise Iran.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

and its development of delivery systems, Shahab-3 missiles, do not point to peaceful or defensive intent.

I don't think anyone would claim missle development is for the provision of aid distribution to the hungry. Funny how Pakistan and India - which have come repeatedly to the brink of war over Kashmir - are now getting US support for their own nuclear arms programs.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The last national leadership to go so far in it's anti-zionist rhetoric was Adolf Hitler and the images on our screens from Tehran bear uncanny similarities to the Nazi rallies of the mid 1930's.

I prefered the comment you made later in the thread:

"Making any kind of comparison between WW2 and Iraq is crass and adds nothing to the debate."

I'd say it applies to Iran, too. I also don;t see anything akin to the Nuremberg rallies happening in Tehran. Routine flag-burning, yes, StormTroopers, no.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I do not believe that a Chamberlianesque appeasment through the IAEA will make a blind bit of difference to these fanatics. And so reluctantly I am forced to the only alternative left open. I dont like it. No rational person could like it. But I see no alternative in this instance. Iran cannot be allowed to deploy a nuclear weapon.

I think it's fair to say that opinions on the rights or wrongs of the issue aside, the US has almost certainly had contingency plans for some years for the launching of an airstrike on Iranian facilities, should the program there be seen to be too advanced. I still expect this to be the eventual "resolution" of this issue, and I don't think the US will benefit from such an action.

All just my personal opinion and 2c.

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Brian,
Yes!! That really is the case!! The fact up until the toppling of the Shah the US had been intent on supplying the equipment for enrichment to plutonium to the Iranians. The great "nobel peace prize" winner Henry Kissinger,( puppet master of Nixon and Ford, author of seminal works such as 'limited nuclear war' , the brains behind 'operation menu' - the blanket bombing of 'neutral' Cambodia that killed a million. Also sugar daddy to figures such as Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, all of whom were part of the negotiating team intent on supply enriching equipment to Iran), saw to that.

In 1968 the US supplied a working 5 megawatt reactor to Iran and it has been operating ever since, producing the volume of fissile material I alluded to in my earlier post. This is a fact.

The IAEA has made some contradictory press releases regarding the traces of enriched uranium it found on inspection of Iranian facilities. It has been stated that the material is likely to have been left over on equipment purchased from Pakistan, and have its origin of production both there and in Russia. Other IAEA reports suggest that the signatures of the material are inconsistent with this theory and that the material is of uncertain origin. So on that that issue we can debate all day.

Of course post-Shah Iran has always been anti-Zionist but there has been, since 2004, a marked change in the 'officially' endorsed rhetoric pumped out by the government there. And the rallies remind me very much of nazi party ones. I am not an appologist for Israel, anything but, nor for the Americans, as I am sure you can guess. But there are levels of scariness and Iran in possesion of a nuclear weapon is right at the top. Perhaps they are still some way away from an actual working bomb, we simply dont know. But in this case no chances should be taken.

Regards

David