identifying...Babylon the great

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Nah I agree with that besides, isn't one of the beast's heads the roman empire? And roman catholic is a religion so if it was false it would be apart of the whore of babylon..... Regarding a previous thread of mine didn't Nostradamus say that when a black pope was elected that was the start of it all?

Well, that would have to be the next pope (as allegedly there is only one more to go, by some other visionary of the church). I don't neccessarily think the pope would have to black in skin tone, but could have black in his identifier (such as from the black hills, or from the dark contintent, etc.)

v/r

Joshua

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Well, that would have to be the next pope (as allegedly there is only one more to go, by some other visionary of the church). I don't neccessarily think the pope would have to black in skin tone, but could have black in his identifier (such as from the black hills, or from the dark contintent, etc.)

v/r

Joshua

Ah so a bit like when they say satan's people and jah's people are marked with symbols on the head and on the hand.... It's not actually physical symbols it's something within them that guides their thoughts (head) and their actions (hand). I get it...

[mee]

This symbolic woman Babylon the great, really is a worldwide influence .Is she the Roman Catholic Church, as some have maintained? Or is she all of Christendom? No, she must be even larger than these if she is to mislead all the nations. She is, in fact, the entire world empire of false religion. Her origin in the mysteries of Babylon is shown in that many Babylonish doctrines and practices are common to religions around the earth. For example, belief in the inherent immortality of the human soul, in a hell of torment, and in a trinity of gods is to be found in most Oriental religions as well as in the sects of Christendom. False religion, spawned more than 4,000 years ago in the ancient city of Babylon, has developed into the modern monstrosity that is called, appropriately, Babylon the Great.

[mee]

God tells his people to get out of her(babylon the great) revelation 18;4 Gods people know what babylon the great is , and they are out of her , and they have allowed Jehovah God to take them in instead.yes its all happening in this time of the end..................................the end of false religion is near.

"SHE has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink of the wine of the anger of her fornication!" "Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird!"—Revelation 14:8; 18:2.

What a startling prophecy! "Babylon the Great has fallen!" For centuries this symbolic statement has intrigued students of the Bible. Why should it interest us all? Because, according to Bible prophecy, Babylon the Great’s destiny will soon affect all mankind.

[mee]

Identifying

"Babylon the Great"

THE book of Revelation contains expressions that are not to be understood literally. (Revelation 1:1) For example, it mentions a woman with the name "Babylon the Great" written on her forehead. This woman is said to be sitting on "crowds and nations." (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15) Since no literal woman could do this, Babylon the Great must be symbolic. So, what does this symbolic harlot represent?
At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as "the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth." The term "city" indicates an organized group of people. Since this "great city" has control over "the kings of the earth," the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one. Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.
An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that "the kings of the earth," or the political elements of this world, "committed fornication" with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called "the great harlot."—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.
Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the "merchants of the earth," representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from "a distance." (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17) Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.
The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her "spiritistic practice." (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great "a dwelling place of demons." (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting "prophets" and "holy ones." (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders "the witnesses of Jesus." (Revelation 17:6) Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God...................... for those of you who are after really knowing just what the bible teaches, the book WHAT DOES THE BIBLE REALLY TEACH is most enlightening. and of cause it is printed by those who have been given insight and understanding matthew 24;45-47 . and the true knowledge is now most abundant indeed Daniel 12;4

"As regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many."—DANIEL 11:33.

[mee]

Ancient

Babylon was outstandingly noted for its religion and its defiance of Jehovah

Gen. 10:8-10: "Nimrod . . . displayed himself a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah. . . . And the beginning of his kingdom came to be Babel [later known as Babylon]."
Dan. 5:22, 23: "As for you [Belshazzar king of Babylon] . . . against the Lord of the heavens you exalted yourself, . . . and you have praised mere gods of silver and of gold, copper, iron, wood and stone, that are beholding nothing or hearing nothing or knowing nothing; but the God in whose hand your breath is and to whom all your ways belong you have not glorified."
An ancient cuneiform inscription reads: "Altogether there are in Babylon 53 temples of the chief gods, 55 chapels of Marduk, 300 chapels for the earthly deities, 600 for the heavenly deities, 180 altars for the goddess Ishtar, 180 for the gods Nergal and Adad and 12 other altars for different gods."—Quoted in The Bible as History (New York, 1964), W. Keller, p. 301.

The

Encyclopedia Americana comments: "Sumerian civilization [which was part of Babylonia] was dominated by priests; at the head of the state was the lugal (literally ‘great man’), the representative of the gods."—(1977), Vol. 3, p. 9.

Reasonably, therefore, Babylon the Great as referred to in Revelation is religious. Being like a city and an empire, it is not limited to one religious group but includes all religions that are in opposition to Jehovah, the true God.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by mee

[font=Arial]At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as "the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth." The term "city" indicates an organized group of people. Since this "great city" has control over "the kings of the earth," the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one.

Not necessarily ... when the Iron Curtain went down, the first to establish in Eastern Europe were the major commercial conglomerates. All the evidence points to a commercial empire ... and the major commercial conglomerates order the activities of the minor ones.

Originally Posted by mee

Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.

OK

Originally Posted by mee

An empire can be political, commercial, or religious.

OK

Originally Posted by mee

The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that "the kings of the earth," or the political elements of this world, "committed fornication" with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called "the great harlot."—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.

Not necessarily. The lesser make alliances with the greater.

Originally Posted by mee

Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the "merchants of the earth," representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from "a distance." (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17)

Again, this points to the centre of enterprise. If the American economy collapsed, for example, then all the world economies suffer.

Look at the price of oil ... what goes on in the Middle East has a significant effect for the price we pay at the pump.

Originally Posted by mee

Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

I think this argument is faulty. The kings and merchants of the world do not look to religion for their authority, leadership or permission. Most of the world's commercial enterprises would delight if the various religions collapsed, and they usually hold to the value of the human being, whereas commercialism treats humanity as a consumer.

Originally Posted by mee

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her "spiritistic practice." (Revelation 18:23)

I would rather consider this to be post-Enlightenment philosophy that denied the idea of Revelation ... this has led the West into the relativisms and false philosophies it labours under today.

Thomas

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by mee

Reasonably, therefore, Babylon the Great as referred to in Revelation is religious. Being like a city and an empire, it is not limited to one religious group but includes all religions that are in opposition to Jehovah, the true God.

Well, historically most empires and cultures had a religious foundation. Rome and Greece had their gods, until philosophy came along ... Egypt, Canaan ...

So yes, any culture in the Middle East, of the times of which you speak, would have had a religious foundation. But what is your point? We all know that Babylon, like Assyria and Egypt, were bad guys in Israel's book.

If you're transferring that to modern times, as a symbol of today, then you can't simply look for another religious institution, you have to look at the institutions that lie at the heart of culture, what has become the 'god' of that culture ... otherwise you are too narrow in your interpretations ... so as today the West is primarily secular, much as it likes to portray itself as Christian ... it is precisely the commerical enterprises, and I count the world's militaries as the biggest commerical enterprises of them all.

I believe it's called the military-industrial complex?

Just a thought.

Thomas

[Quahom1]

I have merged the two threads on the same topic into one thread.

v/r

Q

[paganprophet]

The reference in Revelation to Babylon the Great is to Babylon because it was while priests and writers of the Torah, Tanakh, and Talmud compilations were in their Babylonian Exile period that they picked up and polluted the story of God with both Zoroastrian dualism and the domination of one tribe of Israel, Judah, over all the rest with the resulting Bible heavily favoring Judah's people over all the rest of humankind.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Not necessarily ... when the Iron Curtain went down, the first to establish in Eastern Europe were the major commercial conglomerates. All the evidence points to a commercial empire ... and the major commercial conglomerates order the activities of the minor ones.


OK


OK


Not necessarily. The lesser make alliances with the greater.


Again, this points to the centre of enterprise. If the American economy collapsed, for example, then all the world economies suffer.

Look at the price of oil ... what goes on in the Middle East has a significant effect for the price we pay at the pump.


I think this argument is faulty. The kings and merchants of the world do not look to religion for their authority, leadership or permission. Most of the world's commercial enterprises would delight if the various religions collapsed, and they usually hold to the value of the human being, whereas commercialism treats humanity as a consumer.


I would rather consider this to be post-Enlightenment philosophy that denied the idea of Revelation ... this has led the West into the relativisms and false philosophies it labours under today.

Thomas

so who is it that the bible says will be mourning her when she is destroyed? is it not the merchants or commercial ,
"Also, the traveling merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore, a full stock of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet; and everything in scented wood and every sort of ivory object and every sort of object out of most precious wood and of copper and of iron and of marble; also cinnamon and Indian spice and incense and perfumed oil and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and horses and coaches and slaves and human souls. Yes, the fine fruit that your soul desired has departed from you [Babylon the Great], and all the dainty things and the gorgeous things have perished from you, and never again will people find them."—Revelation 18:11-14.
so that rules that out as being babylon the great .
Notice, however also, that those grief-stricken kings now stand at a distance from the doomed city. They do not get close enough to come to her aid. They are sad to see her go but not sad enough to take risks in her behalf. so it is not the KINGS OF THE EARTH either.
And the kings of the earth who committed fornication with her and lived in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say, ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’"—Revelation 18:9, 10. yes ,babylon the great is THE WORLD EMPIRE OF FALSE RELIGION

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

No you were correct the first time Revelation is describing the whore of babylon as false religion... she gets drunk and gains power from the however many headed beast which is world powers and nations in a political view.... *shrugs*

yes babylon the great is most certainly the world empire of false religion. and as the bible tells us the whole world is in the power of the wicked one (satan the devil) 1 john 5;19 and she is a great harlot who is having dealings with the kings of the earth .

[mee]

The voice out of heaven says further: "The traveling merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, saying, ‘Too bad, too bad—the great city, clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, and richly adorned with gold ornament and precious stone and pearl, because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’" (Revelation 18:15-17a) With the destruction of Babylon the Great, the "merchants" mourn at the loss of that commercial partner. Truly, it is "too bad, too bad" for them. Notice, though, that their reasons for mourning are entirely selfish and that they—like the kings—"stand at a distance." They do not get close enough to be of any help to Babylon the Great.

[Thomas]

My point is, what is the 'false religion' of the world today – assuming we're talking Western World, as none of this applies to the 'Third World' or starving millions who populate this planet, and are too busy trying to survibve at just the most basic level.

I would call it Materialism.

Thomas

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

The reference in Revelation to Babylon the Great is to Babylon because it was while priests and writers of the Torah, Tanakh, and Talmud compilations were in their Babylonian Exile period that they picked up and polluted the story of God with both Zoroastrian dualism and the domination of one tribe of Israel, Judah, over all the rest with the resulting Bible heavily favoring Judah's people over all the rest of humankind.

BB would vehemently disagree. God did not choose Israel for any more reason that He had to start with somebody to bring forth His plan for the world. In fact, God told Abraham that through him, all the nations of the world would be blessed. So the God of the Hebrews is the God of everyone.