Interafaith: Comparative religion: world religions

Go Back   Interfaith forums > Religion, Faith, and Theology > Abrahamic Religions

Abrahamic Religions Neutral discussion area for topics that cross-over between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 11 votes, 4.91 average.
Old 09-09-2006, 08:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
What was the question?
 
Quahom1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,905
Quahom1 has a spectacular aura aboutQuahom1 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Skype™ to Quahom1
Re: If God was to send us a message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taijasi
I question (doubt, disbelieve, ignore) ... any God, or conception/image/personification/anthropomorphism thereof, who or which says, "Worship ME." That's not `G-d,' that's an overgrown human EGO.
If your concept of "worship" is prostrating one's self and groveling in the dirt before a task master who will smite one dead if one doesn't... then I agree.

However, God is not asking for one's prostration and "HUMILIATION". He has that with the fallen angels, that thought they could take God on and win...

The "Worship" God asks for is trust, compliance, acting on His command despite personal fear, and acknowledgement, that we are not perfect, and do not have all the answers, but admitting God does, and listening to those answers.

Worship, is what a child does, when "dad" walks a certain way, or does certain things, and the child attempts to follow suite...and there is no shame in that, for either party...

v/r

Q
Quahom1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2006, 09:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
A friend
 
arthra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 3,084
arthra will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to arthra
Cool Re: If God was to send us a message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmaster
Hello fellow monotheists!

If God was to send us a message by say a prophet! What would you like to hear? Or what do you think he will have to say? Feel free to express your views, I'm curious!
My comment...

Thanks for the topic Quahom!

Well I kinda think this already occurred about a hundred years ago or so through the Manifestations of the Bab (1819-1850) and Baha'u'llah (1817-1892)... The message wasn't however what a lot of people at that time necessarily "wanted" to hear...that the nations should set about building a representative world government, an international court of arbitration, adopt a universal auxiliary language and establish peace and security for mankind and abolish class and race prejudice..but more and more people seem to be hearing the message and appreciating the need for it.

- Art
arthra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2006, 09:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
What was the question?
 
Quahom1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,905
Quahom1 has a spectacular aura aboutQuahom1 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Skype™ to Quahom1
Re: If God was to send us a message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra
My comment...

Thanks for the topic Quahom!

Well I kinda think this already occurred about a hundred years ago or so through the Manifestations of the Bab (1819-1850) and Baha'u'llah (1817-1892)... The message wasn't however what a lot of people at that time necessarily "wanted" to hear...that the nations should set about building a representative world government, an international court of arbitration, adopt a universal auxiliary language and establish peace and security for mankind and abolish class and race prejudice..but more and more people seem to be hearing the message and appreciating the need for it.

- Art
I'd say "you're welcome Artha"...but I didn't start the thread. Postmaster did.
Quahom1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2006, 10:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
What was the question?
 
Quahom1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,905
Quahom1 has a spectacular aura aboutQuahom1 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Skype™ to Quahom1
Re: If God was to send us a message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra
My comment...

Thanks for the topic Quahom!

Well I kinda think this already occurred about a hundred years ago or so through the Manifestations of the Bab (1819-1850) and Baha'u'llah (1817-1892)... The message wasn't however what a lot of people at that time necessarily "wanted" to hear...that the nations should set about building a representative world government, an international court of arbitration, adopt a universal auxiliary language and establish peace and security for mankind and abolish class and race prejudice..but more and more people seem to be hearing the message and appreciating the need for it.

- Art
Actually, the occurrance was over 5000/6000 years ago, when God Himself established specific laws with Noah. They are called the "Seven" Noahidic Laws. At the time, the language of earth was allegedly one language already, and governments were to follow a single pattern. Courts and officers of the courts were to be just and fair. There was also no class or "race" persee at the time.

Here:

Origin

According to the Biblical narrative, the Deluge covered the whole world killing every surface-dwelling creature except Noah, his family and the creatures of the ark. After the flood, God seals a covenant with Noah with the following admonitions (Genesis 9):
  • Food: "Also, flesh with the life -the blood- in it do not eat." (9:4)
  • Murder: "I will also inquire about your blood, your life, from all animals, and from each human I will inquire about his brother's blood. Who sheds the blood of man, by man his blood will be shed, because in the image of God was man made."
The Talmud (tractate Sanhedrin 56a/b, quoting Tosefta Sanhedrin 9:4) states that the instruction to not eat "flesh with the life" was given to Noah, and that Adam and Eve had already received six other commandments. The remaining six are exegetically derived from a seemingly superfluous sentence in Genesis 2:16.
[edit]

The Seven Laws

The seven laws (commonly rendered as Sheva Mitzvot Shel Bnei Noach) are:
  1. Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods.
  2. Shefichat damim - Do not murder.
  3. Gezel - Do not steal (or kidnap).
  4. Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (forbidden sexual acts are traditionally interpreted to include incest, bestiality, male homosexual sex acts, i.e. sodomy, and adultery.)
  5. Birkat Hashem - Do not "bless God" euphemistically referring to blasphemy.
  6. Ever min ha-chai - Do not eat any flesh that was torn from the body of a living animal (given to Noah and traditionally interpreted as a prohibition of cruelty towards animals)
  7. Dinim - Set up a system of honest, effective courts, police and laws.
The Talmud also states: "Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come" (Sanhedrin 105a). Any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as one of "the righteous among the gentiles". Maimonides states that this refers to those who have acquired knowledge of God and act in accordance with the Noahide laws.
[edit]

Definition of Noahides

According to rabbinic Judaism, as expressed in the Talmud, the Noahide Laws apply to all humanity through mankind's descent from one paternal ancestor who in Hebrew tradition is called Noah (the head of the only family to survive during The Flood). In Judaism, בני נח B'nei Noah (Hebrew, "Descendants of Noah", "Children of Noah") refers to all of mankind.
Judaism holds that gentiles (goyim "non-Jews [literally 'Nations']") are not obligated to adhere to all the laws of the Torah (indeed, they are forbidden to fulfill some laws, such as the keeping of the Sabbath in the exact same manner as Israel [citation needed]). Rabbinic Judaism and its modern-day descendants discourage proselytization. The Noahide Laws are regarded as the way through which non-Jews can have a direct and meaningful relationship with God or at least comply with the minimal requisites of civilization and of divine law.
A non-Jew who keeps the Noahide Law in all its details is said to attain the same spiritual and moral level as Israel's own Kohen Gadol (high priest) (Talmud, Bava Kamma 38a). Maimonides states in his work Mishneh Torah (The laws of kings and their rulership 8:11) that a Ger Toshav who is precise in the observance of these Seven Noahide commandments is considered to be a Righteous Gentile and has earned a place in the world to come. This follows a similar statement in the Talmud (tractate Sanhedrin 105b). However, according to Maimonides, a gentile is considered righteous only if a person follows the Noahide laws specifically because he or she considers them to be of divine origin (through the Torah) and not if they are merely considered to be intellectually compelling or good rules for living.[1]
Noahide law differs radically from the Roman law for gentiles (Jus Gentium), if only because the latter was an enforceable judicial policy. Rabbinic Judaism has never adjudicated any cases under Noahide law (per Novak, 1983:28ff.), although scholars disagree about whether the Noahide law is a functional part of Halakha (cf. Bleich).
In recent years, Noahide has come to refer to non-Jews who strive to live in accord with the seven Noahide Laws; the terms "observant Noahide" or "Torah-centered Noahides" would be more precise but are infrequently used. The rainbow, referring to the Noahide or First Covenant (Genesis 9), is the symbol of many organized Noahide groups. A non-Jewish person of any ethnicity or religion is referred to as a bat "daughter" or ben "son" of Noah, but most organizations that call themselves בני נח are composed of gentiles who are keeping the Noahide Laws.

hope that helps.

v/r

Q
Quahom1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2006, 10:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 26
james is on a distinguished road
Re: If God was to send us a message.

i never said anything about dirt, and how is prostrating before your lord a humiliation.its better tahn sat down listening to someone reading the gospel, then eating some porridge tasting stuff that is meant to be god...
james is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2006, 10:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
What was the question?
 
Quahom1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,905
Quahom1 has a spectacular aura aboutQuahom1 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Skype™ to Quahom1
Re: If God was to send us a message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james
i never said anything about dirt, and how is prostrating before your lord a humiliation.its better tahn sat down listening to someone reading the gospel, then eating some porridge tasting stuff that is meant to be god...
And pride goeth before the fall...don't take what I say to task. I only expressed my thoughts. And, I don't recall the response being to you. In fact it was a response to Taijasi...

your disdain for those that wish to share the Good News is quite evident, but that gives you no license to step in on another coversation as if it were directed towards you, James.

v/r

Q
Quahom1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2006, 10:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,312
Postmaster will become famous soon enoughPostmaster will become famous soon enough
Re: If God was to send us a message.

Art basically what your trying to say is.. A religious movement broke away from Islam in Persian in the 1800s. Basic teaching of this religion are

Racial equality

One God

All major world religions are given to us from the same God

Religions and societies go hand in hand and is the only reason for different views among different religions, whereas the core of every major world religion are very much the same in view.

Religion still progress's and changes with time!

As globalisation is increasing especially in this day and age, with interracial marriage and inter faith marriage, the more acceptance and need there is for a religion such as the Baha'i faith?

Let's have a look. Judaism broke away from Zoroastrianism, Christianity and Islam broke away from Judaism.
Postmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2006, 10:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
What was the question?
 
Quahom1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,905
Quahom1 has a spectacular aura aboutQuahom1 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Skype™ to Quahom1
Re: If God was to send us a message.

post deleted due to stupidity on the poster's part...
Quahom1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 02:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,312
Postmaster will become famous soon enoughPostmaster will become famous soon enough
Re: If God was to send us a message.

As for evolution does the Baha'i faith support such theory?
Postmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 02:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
A friend
 
arthra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 3,084
arthra will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to arthra
Thanks postmaster!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quahom1
I'd say "you're welcome Artha"...but I didn't start the thread. Postmaster did.
You're absolutely right! Quahom. What was I thinking?
Also thanks for the definitions of "Noahides". Baha'is acknowledge Noah also.

O.K. Postmaster, please accept my apology and thanks for the original post starting this thread!!!

You asked about whether Baha'is accept "evolution"..that maybe a good topic for the Baha'i Board...but the short answer is yes...

Baha'is accept evolution but within species..in other words we believe humans have changed in appearence over the aeons and adapted but they have always potentially been humans and not descended say from simians or apes..there may have been humans who appeared like apes and earlier some may have appeared like other species but in potential they were always human.

- Art
arthra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 03:54 AM   #26 (permalink)
Episcopalian
 
lunamoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wild, Wild West
Posts: 3,915
lunamoth has a spectacular aura aboutlunamoth has a spectacular aura about
Re: Thanks postmaster!

Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra
You're absolutely right! Quahom. What was I thinking?
Also thanks for the definitions of "Noahides". Baha'is acknowledge Noah also.

O.K. Postmaster, please accept my apology and thanks for the original post starting this thread!!!

You asked about whether Baha'is accept "evolution"..that maybe a good topic for the Baha'i Board...but the short answer is yes...

Baha'is accept evolution but within species..in other words we believe humans have changed in appearence over the aeons and adapted but they have always potentially been humans and not descended say from simians or apes..there may have been humans who appeared like apes and earlier some may have appeared like other species but in potential they were always human.

- Art
Art, I know we've talked about this before, but just to clarify. The Baha'i teachings are consistent with the theory of descent from a common ancestor, such as humans and other primates both coming from the same ancestral species.

You don't have to believe this, but Baha'is should have no reason not to agree with the current models for understanding evolution.

peace,
Laurie
lunamoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 04:51 AM   #27 (permalink)
A friend
 
arthra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 3,084
arthra will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to arthra
Baha'i view of evolution:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunamoth
Art, I know we've talked about this before, but just to clarify. The Baha'i teachings are consistent with the theory of descent from a common ancestor, such as humans and other primates both coming from the same ancestral species.

You don't have to believe this, but Baha'is should have no reason not to agree with the current models for understanding evolution.

peace,
Laurie
Here's an essay on the subject if anyone is interested:

http://bahai-library.com/?file=kitzi...view_evolution

- Art
arthra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 05:00 AM   #28 (permalink)
Episcopalian
 
lunamoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wild, Wild West
Posts: 3,915
lunamoth has a spectacular aura aboutlunamoth has a spectacular aura about
Re: Baha'i view of evolution:

Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra
Here's an essay on the subject if anyone is interested:

http://bahai-library.com/?file=kitzi...view_evolution

- Art
Thank you Art.

Is this an authoritative interpretation of Baha'i teachings, Art? Also, I could not determine the credentials of Eberhard von Kitzing. Do you happen to know?

Laurie
lunamoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 05:31 AM   #29 (permalink)
A friend
 
arthra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 3,084
arthra will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to arthra
Re: If God was to send us a message.

Hi Laurie..

When you say "authoritative interpretation" Laurie that narrows it down a bit.

von Kitzing's articles appear in Baha'i Studies Review. Also you can click on Kevin Brown near the top of the page referenced and a commentary on the article as well.

At this point it may be that this is the same Eberhard von Kitzing as

http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/messa...+02+21+003+raw

There's another interesting article by von Kitzing at

http://bahai-library.com/?file=kitzi..._complex_order

Another article also deals with the subject:

http://bahai-library.com/?file=nadim...ithin_kingdoms

Have phun!

-Art
arthra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 05:43 AM   #30 (permalink)
Episcopalian
 
lunamoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wild, Wild West
Posts: 3,915
lunamoth has a spectacular aura aboutlunamoth has a spectacular aura about
Re: If God was to send us a message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra
Hi Laurie..

When you say "authoritative interpretation" Laurie that narrows it down a bit.
Hi Art, There is more than one way to read Abdu'l Baha's comments on evolution. One way might be to reject the concept of descent from a common ancestor, as you and the author of that essay appear to do. Another would be to read it figuratively, or with the understanding that Abdu'l Baha was speaking with the best knowledge available to him at the time, with the understanding that science and religion must always be in harmony.

It seems against the principle of the harmony of science and religion, and perhaps falling toward superstition, to say that science must be wrong in concluding that humans and apes descended from a common ancestor.

By authoritative, I mean has the UHJ said one way or another that the only way to understand Abdu'l Baha's comments is literally? Say I, as a Baha'i, were to publish a research article strongly supporting the idea that humans and apes shared a common ancestor--would that get me in trouble?

Laurie
lunamoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jesus is not God....part 2 bruce Christianity 335 12-18-2012 06:22 PM
In search of the God akbar Belief and Spirituality 3 11-11-2005 05:00 AM
Are the Ten Commandment important? Does God really want us to keep them? ambassador Christianity 28 05-26-2005 08:28 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.