If Jesus had not died?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

we would be under the curse of the law.

Say what? Jesus (pbuh) confirmed the law. I suggest a review of the word translated 'iniquity'.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Say what? Jesus (pbuh) confirmed the law. I suggest a review of the word translated 'iniquity'.

first of all this is a christian forum, secondly jesus fulfilled the law. jesus obeyed the law perfectly, however, that is something only the son of god could do. the rest of us are still under the curse of the law until we are born again thru christ jesus. the curse of the law being, we break one, we break them all, therefore we are guilty of sin and deserve death. and we all fall short of the glory of god. however with the grace of god, we have forgiveness and salvation thru god's son, jesus christ, and in him we have life.

[Faithfulservant]

If Jesus hadnt died.. I would be a lying thieving covetuous blaspheming adulterous idol worshipping sabbath breaker murderous parent abuser... and condemned for it.

Thank you Jesus for giving me your righteousness.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

If Jesus hadnt died.. I would be a lying thieving covetuous blaspheming adulterous idol worshipping sabbath breaker murderous parent abuser... and condemned for it.

Thank you Jesus for giving me your righteousness.

I'd still be a sailor, just not an honorable attempting one.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

first of all this is a christian forum, secondly jesus fulfilled the law. jesus obeyed the law perfectly, however, that is something only the son of god could do. the rest of us are still under the curse of the law until we are born again thru christ jesus. the curse of the law being, we break one, we break them all, therefore we are guilty of sin and deserve death. and we all fall short of the glory of god. however with the grace of god, we have forgiveness and salvation thru god's son, jesus christ, and in him we have life.

I think a Christian would want to understand the word iniquity in these verses, right?:

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.

Matthew 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence you are; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

If Jesus hadnt died.. I would be a lying thieving covetuous blaspheming adulterous idol worshipping sabbath breaker murderous parent abuser... and condemned for it.

Thank you Jesus for giving me your righteousness.

Really, wow! So, Jesus is the only thing keeping you from being all of those horrible things?

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Nevermind, I just got it. The collective blood guilt thing.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Nevermind, I just got it. The collective blood guilt thing.

Chris

Maybe not Chris. Sometimes we do what is right, not because we want to, but because we are compelled to by a source not our own, and not within our physical sphere of influence, or because something inside us overrides our desires, and helps us make correct choices we might not otherwise have made.

I can identify with every point Faithful made, if I think back far enough, or if I care to look at day to day details of my life, and what thoughts I may have harbored during different situations and issues.

I'm not looking at what someone else may or may not have done either, only what I did or did not do, thought or did not think.

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

If Jesus hadnt died.. I would be a lying thieving covetuous blaspheming adulterous idol worshipping sabbath breaker murderous parent abuser...

Hmmm ... I tend to think, it's precisely the reverse. But not singling you out, or anyone in particular. Just a generic comment ...

taijasa

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Maybe not Chris. Sometimes we do what is right, not because we want to, but because we are compelled to by a source not our own, and not within our physical sphere of influence, or because something inside us overrides our desires, and helps us make correct choices we might not otherwise have made.

I can identify with every point Faithful made, if I think back far enough, or if I care to look at day to day details of my life, and what thoughts I may have harbored during different situations and issues.

I'm not looking at what someone else may or may not have done either, only what I did or did not do, thought or did not think.

I was just shocked to think that a normal person would think they would be a murderer if not for accepting Jesus. But then I got it that FS was going through the commandments. I have a talent for missing the obvious sometimes.

I was just thinking that there are a whole lot of non-Christians, non-religious people who have absolutely no inclination toward any of that nasty stuff, but then that's not the point FS is making. Or, I don't think it is.

Chris

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I was just shocked to think that a normal person would think they would be a murderer if not for accepting Jesus. But then I got it that FS was going through the commandments. I have a talent for missing the obvious sometimes.

I was just thinking that there are a whole lot of non-Christians, non-religious people who have absolutely no inclination toward any of that nasty stuff, but then that's not the point FS is making. Or, I don't think it is.

Chris

No..we are all nasty and do nasty stuff.. its the non-believers that havent a clue that they are neck deep in it.... the bible says that to hate someone is to commit murder... to lust after someone in ones heart is to commit adultery. It says that if we sin against ONE of Gods laws we are guilty of ALL of them. Like any guilty man heading into court.. we are deserving of punishment. To be so casually dismissive of the sacrifice Jesus made.. is dismissing the man that paid the debt...he literally paid the price FOR me so I can be set free rather than face punishment.. Every man is appointed to die once.. then face God on judgement day.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by taijasi

Hmmm ... I tend to think, it's precisely the reverse. But not singling you out, or anyone in particular. Just a generic comment ...

taijasa

Just a generic comment in response.. He said everything He had to say and when His hour had come..He shed blood for us in payment... died.. resurrected then ascended... plus.. HE had other things to do.. like go to prepare a place for us...amazing creation took 6 days and its been 2 thousand years ... makes me quite anxious to see what He's been up to.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

No..we are all nasty and do nasty stuff.. its the non-believers that havent a clue that they are neck deep in it.... the bible says that to hate someone is to commit murder... to lust after someone in ones heart is to commit adultery. It says that if we sin against ONE of Gods laws we are guilty of ALL of them. Like any guilty man heading into court.. we are deserving of punishment. To be so casually dismissive of the sacrifice Jesus made.. is dismissing the man that paid the debt...he literally paid the price FOR me so I can be set free rather than face punishment.. Every man is appointed to die once.. then face God on judgement day.

Do you really believe that? That to hate someone, to want them dead, is the same as killing them? I mean the same in every sense? A person who hates someone should perhaps face the prospect of capital punishment or permanent incarceration?

I'm often tempted to do something wrong, like cheat on my wife, but I resist. What's the point of resisting if having merely experienced a moment of lust is the same as the act?

When the Bible says: "but if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness", who is it talking about: Jesus or God? What role does forgiveness play if we continue in a state of permanant guilt?

Chris

[shadowman]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

No..we are all nasty and do nasty stuff.. its the non-believers that havent a clue that they are neck deep in it.... the bible says that to hate someone is to commit murder... to lust after someone in ones heart is to commit adultery. It says that if we sin against ONE of Gods laws we are guilty of ALL of them. Like any guilty man heading into court.. we are deserving of punishment. To be so casually dismissive of the sacrifice Jesus made.. is dismissing the man that paid the debt...he literally paid the price FOR me so I can be set free rather than face punishment.. Every man is appointed to die once.. then face God on judgement day.

i have a clue that i am neck deep. so i focus on my actions and the thoughts behind them. i try to let thoughts come and into consciousness and only focus on the positive. just about every so called false religion is trying to get its followers to sin less. some even think about how a human brain works and how to overcome its trained personality modes.

te idea is tat we dont have a personality except of the one we learnwed nurtured. we are all kind of like floating brains

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Do you really believe that? That to hate someone, to want them dead, is the same as killing them? I mean the same in every sense? A person who hates someone should perhaps face the prospect of capital punishment or permanent incarceration?

I'm often tempted to do something wrong, like cheat on my wife, but I resist. What's the point of resisting if having merely experienced a moment of lust is the same as the act?

When the Bible says: "but if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness", who is it talking about: Jesus or God? What role does forgiveness play if we continue in a state of permanant guilt?

Chris

Yes I believe it... because Im being held up to a Holy perfect God and Im without the righteousness of Christ I am found sorely lacking..

The verse you quoted was about Jesus.. Jesus is our mediator with the Father.. He is the filter, in a sense... He filters out all the bad stuff... Yes Jesus forgives us our sins and makes us white as snow.. Thats the thing though.. Jesus died so we wouldnt be in a state of permanent guilt.. We are adopted.. or grafted into His righteousness and the only unique son of God.. He shares His Righteousness with us.. He shares His holiness. I have no guilt because I repented of all my sins towards God and accepted what Jesus did on the cross.. That seems like such a small thing.. but I seriously seriously repented and it was hard.

You cant ever NOT sin.. in thought or deed.. You will always struggle with it.. but thats where His grace and mercy come into play... You are forgiven.