If Jesus is God...

[Quahom1]

[quote=mee;160544]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

where does it say that ?

I will repost for your sake:

Isaiah 43:11, states that "only" God is Savior, yet in Titus 2:13-14, Jesus is called "Savior".

Isaiah 44:24 states that "only" God is creator, yet in John 1:3; Colossians 1:16, Jesus is called "Creator".

Glory is "only" to God in Isaiah 6:1-5, yet "Glory" is to Jesus in John 12:41.

Yahweh and Elohim are applied to Jesus (Mark 1:24 compared to Isaiah 40:3).

In Psalm 119:25, 37, 40, 50, 88, 93, 107, 149,154,156,159 - God gives and preserves life. In John 5:21, Jesus gives and preserves life.

Ezekiel 43:2 claims God's voice like the the roar of rushing waters. Jesus' voice is like the roar of rushing waters in Refelation 1:15.

Only God is to be worshipped (Exodus 34:14). Yet Jesus received and condoned worship of him as noted Mat 2:11, 8:2, 9:18, 15:25, 28:9; John 9:38; Heb 1:6

Indeed, the Bible speaks volumes as to the identity of Jesus...

v/r

Q

[dailogue is the best]

I m just wondering: What is the use af all this confusion, unclarity, and ambiguity????

Normally, a divine message come to solve our problems, and answer our questions, and not to add others.

In some places in the Bible, we find Jesus (pbuh) said: " I m not God", and other places: " I am God's son"

what is worth noting is that Jesus never said :" I m God", and it is the interpretation which lead to that conclusion. Why would God make you confused, and not give you a clear, undoubtfull statement that Jesus is God, and end the confusion???

In my opinion, it is the interpretation which lead to that confusion. One cant give a clear-cut Biblical statement that Jesus (pbuh) is God, but rather he/ she would give you comparing/ interpreting statements. God is one, and that what Jesus (pbuh) came to teach. And that what suits reason, heart, and nature.

• " Why callest you me God? There is no God but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18)
• " My father and your father, and my God and your God" (John 20:17)

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

I m just wondering: What is the use af all this confusion, unclarity, and ambiguity????
In some places in the Bible, we find Jesus (pbuh) said: " I m not God", and other places: " I am God's son"

Please be careful in quoting the bible and throwing around this type of inaccurate statement in a christian forum in light of all scripture, Jesus never said he is not God. There is confusion because there are people involved with preconceived notions, arrogance, stubbornness or ignorance just as it is found in any religion including yours. Christian doctrine many times is misunderstood by those who have no spiritual grounding in the gospel. People making incorrect statements, who are not well studied in Christianity and strong in the Spirit do not really speak for Christianity.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

I m just wondering: What is the use af all this confusion, unclarity, and ambiguity????

Normally, a divine message come to solve our problems, and answer our questions, and not to add others.

In some places in the Bible, we find Jesus (pbuh) said: " I m not God", and other places: " I am God's son"

what is worth noting is that Jesus never said :" I m God", and it is the interpretation which lead to that conclusion. Why would God make you confused, and not give you a clear, undoubtfull statement that Jesus is God, and end the confusion???

In my opinion, it is the interpretation which lead to that confusion. One cant give a clear-cut Biblical statement that Jesus (pbuh) is God, but rather he/ she would give you comparing/ interpreting statements. God is one, and that what Jesus (pbuh) came to teach. And that what suits reason, heart, and nature.

• " Why callest you me God? There is no God but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18)
• " My father and your father, and my God and your God" (John 20:17)

there is no unclarity, confusion or ambiguity Dialogue. It is called deliberately turning a blind eye, because people want what they want in Christianity...much like the Shiia, the Sunni, the Suffi, etc., all have a way they want to see things in Islam.

One can not in good conscience take a partial text and attempt to make it stand on its own merit. One has to take the whole of the text surrounding the point being made, and address issues from there. Problem is, half the time, when the whole of the text is brought to bear, the original point dis-appears...(funny how that happens).

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

[*]" Why callest you me God? There is no God but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18)[*]" My father and your father, and my God and your God" (John 20:17)[/LIST]

For the record, mark 10:18 is

18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'[d]"

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

For the record, mark 10:18 is

18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'[d]"

Indeed, Jesus was answering the reason as to why he was good...I think the term is "read between the lines", and he was telling us who he was, by moving forward after the "pause".

[mee]

yes the most high JEHOVAH is very good
"Jehovah is near to all those calling upon him, . . . and their cry for help he will hear, and he will save them."—Ps. 145:18, 19.


Praise Jah, you people!" The name Jah is an abbreviated form of the name Jehovah.

Jehovah is the personal name of God, the Creator.


"Praise Jehovah from the heavens, praise him in the heights. Praise him, all you his angels. Praise him, all you his army. Praise him, you sun and moon. Praise him, all you stars of light. Praise him, you heavens of the heavens, and you waters that are above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Jehovah; for he himself commanded, and they were created. . . . [Praise Jehovah] you kings of the earth and all you national groups, you princes and all you judges of the earth, you young men and also you virgins, you old men together with boys. Let them praise the name of Jehovah, for his name alone is unreachably high. . . .

Praise Jah, you people!"—Ps. 148:1-5, 11-14.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

yes the most high JEHOVAH is very good
"Jehovah is near to all those calling upon him, . . . and their cry for help he will hear, and he will save them."—Ps. 145:18, 19.


Praise Jah, you people!" The name Jah is an abbreviated form of the name Jehovah.

Jehovah is the personal name of God, the Creator.


"Praise Jehovah from the heavens, praise him in the heights. Praise him, all you his angels. Praise him, all you his army. Praise him, you sun and moon. Praise him, all you stars of light. Praise him, you heavens of the heavens, and you waters that are above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Jehovah; for he himself commanded, and they were created. . . . [Praise Jehovah] you kings of the earth and all you national groups, you princes and all you judges of the earth, you young men and also you virgins, you old men together with boys. Let them praise the name of Jehovah, for his name alone is unreachably high. . . .

Praise Jah, you people!"—Ps. 148:1-5, 11-14.

We are not talking about Jehovah, mee... This is about "Jesus". Let's keep it in perspective.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

We are not talking about Jehovah, mee... This is about "Jesus". Let's keep it in perspective.

v/r

Q

oh yes ,to seperate ones,, not the same sorry .

Jesus is Gods son as Jehovah informs us LUKE 9;35

And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.


Lets get it in perspective

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

oh yes ,to seperate ones,, not the same sorry . Jesus is Gods son as Jehovah informs us LUKE 9;35

No, when the topic is Jesus is God, you start posting about Jehova in the jw sense, which is the Father only and it had nothing to do with the topic at hand. However, do not get confused that in the Christian sense YHWH is both the Father and the Son, not two seperate Gods but one God. Jesus is YHWH as the bible, the Father, the Spirit inform us, as well as the Son, the Lamb, the creator, the saviour, the redeemer, and Lord.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

oh yes ,to seperate ones,, not the same sorry .

Jesus is Gods son as Jehovah informs us LUKE 9;35

And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.


Lets get it in perspective

This is about Jesus being God, mee. Attempting to de-rail the thread to another concept is not acceptable. I would hope you can "learn" from the past...but apparently not.

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Please be careful in quoting the bible and throwing around this type of inaccurate statement in a christian forum in light of all scripture, Jesus never said he is not God.

I m very sorry, BF. I wanted to say that Jesus (pbuh) never said he is God.

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

For the record, mark 10:18 is

18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'[d]"

Thank you for correcting me, lunamoth. I m very grateful for that.

[dailogue is the best]

Let's discuss the following, Quahom1

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Isaiah 43:11, states that "only" God is Savior, yet in Titus 2:13-14, Jesus is called "Savior".

It is true that God is Savior, and it is through Him, we can save others. In other words, when we show to others God's way, we then save them. Hence, all the prophets are saviors. Also, ordinary people can be saviors from a lot of bad things. But, the propehts are the best saviors for they show us God's path

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Isaiah 44:24 states that "only" God is creator, yet in John 1:3; Colossians 1:16, Jesus is called "Creator".

God is creator. and people can be creators too. Jesus (pbuh) is creator, and whatever he created, it was through God. The real Creator is God fro he created Jesus (pbuh) and all creatures.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Glory is "only" to God in Isaiah 6:1-5, yet "Glory" is to Jesus in John 12:41.

Yes, in the first and in the last place, Glory is to God. and that glory reach all those who spread God' words and follow His teaching. Either they are prophets, or believers.


What I want to say, Quahom1, is that through following God, and His teachings, we can take some of God's traits. God is merciful, compassionate, just, wise,etc ....humans can be so, too if they follow Him. But, God is the source of all these. Without Him, nothing can occure, and nothing can be created.

[Quahom1]

We can discuss as you wish Dialogue. However I must point out something that you may not care to hear.

You seem curious about Christianity, which is wonderful. I on the otherhand, am not curious about Islam, not in the least. Nor do I wish to convert you to Christianity with "words". I can't, and it would be arrogant for me to try.

Islam holds no benefit for a man like me, where as Christianity is my only hope.

If you wish to continue this conversation, I am inclined, now that we both understand each other.

v/r

Q