I'm the Culprit

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Dream

Somehow we haven't connected. This is about the leader of Brazil saying 'White blue-eyed people are responsible for ....'

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva's full quote...

“This crisis was not created by blacks, nor Indians, nor poor people. It was a crisis that was created and spread throughout the world due to the irresponsible behavior by white people. Blue-eyed people that thought they knew everything but are now showing they knew nothing.”

100% truth.

Amen brother.

[wil]

So lets count the sins of us guilty blue eyed white folks.

We created a country with a gross national product that has addicted the world to gladly selling us goods and services in exchange for our dollars.

A country that has opened it doors and its shores to millions and millions of people for over 200 years and allowed them a better life than they had at home, so good very few go back except to visit relatives or send money.

A country where millions come to vacation and go to university and return with their pictures and education and tell others about the time they had here.

We not only buy back our recycled steel from China, we also assist in removing oil from the middle east, south america, canada, and heroin from afghanistan, cocaine from columbia...what's not to like.

Seems they've been glad to take our greenbacks for years...decades...centuries even, but now when our ecomomy hiccups they start to complain...but give us a few years and we'll still be providing billions in foriegn aide around the world and they'll still be accusing of us many more sins...

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Dream

Somehow we haven't connected. This is about the leader of Brazil saying 'White blue-eyed people are responsible for ....' To bring Tim Wise into it changes the subject, kind of ignores the topic of the thread. I agree with what Mr. Wise is saying. Wise is correct that there are lots of privileges for whites, such as light colored matching band-aids, lots of white people in history here, etc. He is not saying white people are intrinsically evil, so I don't see how he fits into the discussion. I don't hear him saying 'We whites have caused the world's problems'. He is just saying that those who are 'White privileged' should be sticking up for those that are not. It is two different things.

No, it doesn't ignore the topic of the thread. It helps connect the dots.

Basically, what the prime minister of Brazil has said is that "white people" in powerful positions run the world economy, and have been acting as if they know what they are doing. When the world economy begins to crash, it is those same "white people" in powerful places that are responsible for the problem.

You are absolutely right about the concept of white privilege; it does not claim that all white people are responsible for creating all of the world's problems. What it does assert is that white people benefit from their skin color, and have unearned advantages that people of color do not.

How this connects to the economic situation is that some white people, benefiting from their unearned advantages and the social structure, have created and perpetuated this ridiculous economic system based on production and consumption of finite resources. Furthermore, they have coerced or forced the rest of the world population to go along with this economic system. Playing on their advantages, they have set themselves up as experts, marginalizing and destabilizing any economic system that was not capitalist; this has evolved into the global economy, which is now quite sour.

So what the Brazilian leader is saying is quite true; in effect: "This is your system. You sold it to us, you told us it was not only good, but that it was the best, even the only way. And now it's broken. And that's your fault."

As unpopular as such a statement might be, it is true.

So white people need to buck up and take a little hit on the chin.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by wil

So lets count the sins of us guilty blue eyed white folks.

We created a country with a gross national product that has addicted the world to gladly selling us goods and services in exchange for our dollars.

A country that has opened it doors and its shores to millions and millions of people for over 200 years and allowed them a better life than they had at home, so good very few go back except to visit relatives or send money.

A country where millions come to vacation and go to university and return with their pictures and education and tell others about the time they had here.

We not only buy back our recycled steel from China, we also assist in removing oil from the middle east, south america, canada, and heroin from afghanistan, cocaine from columbia...what's not to like.

Seems they've been glad to take our greenbacks for years...decades...centuries even, but now when our ecomomy hiccups they start to complain...but give us a few years and we'll still be providing billions in foriegn aide around the world and they'll still be accusing of us many more sins...

Again, the righteousness of the white man, whose systems are the best that anyone has to offer, and is the pinnacle of achievement and civilization.

[Nick_A]

Well I see racism is alive and well. At least I don't have to worry about being branded with 666 since they are on guard for blue eyes. I'll just buy extra pairs of dark glasses since we could have a shortage due to fashionable racism. Then I have to get used to looking cool so as not to arouse suspicion in polite society which could report me as one of "them."

Hopefully it blows over after a while and a new form of racism will become fashionable so I can remove my dark glasses and once again become acceptable in peace loving society.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Again, the righteousness of the white man, whose systems are the best that anyone has to offer, and is the pinnacle of achievement and civilization.

So again, what have we done?

And when the asians build factories to sell us trinkets in a dollar store or big screen TVs or computers...are we guilty of what...or are they guilty?

When I watch BET is it my fault I laugh at black humor or the founder?

What about the fellow that invented the cotton gin...was he evil as well?

In a perfect world if the white man didn't land here what exactly do you think would have happenned....we can wax philosophic but what is this utopia we think would have been possible?

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by wil

So again, what have we done?

The man spoke the truth. That's all.

Nobody's asking you to don the sackcloth.

Just don't run around denying, when somebody's finally had enough — and forgets his manners long enough — to tell the awful, horrible truth.

[Tao_Equus]

Luiz da Silvaback also said, according to Gordon Brown in a speech yesterday, that, and I'm paraphrasing, " When I was a Trade Unionist, I blamed the Government. When I was in the opposition, I blamed the Government, When I got in Government I blamed Western government".

There is always someone else to blame, if thats what you want to do.

[wil]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

The man spoke the truth. That's all.

Nobody's asking you to don the sackcloth.

Just don't run around denying, when somebody's finally had enough — and forgets his manners long enough — to tell the awful, horrible truth.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Luiz da Silvaback also said, according to Gordon Brown in a speech yesterday, that, and I'm paraphrasing, " When I was a Trade Unionist, I blamed the Government. When I was in the opposition, I blamed the Government, When I got in Government I blamed Western government".

There is always someone else to blame, if thats what you want to do.

Exactly. And somehow we are ready to return to using outhouses, chopping down forests to build our homes and using woodstoves to heat them...does anyone know the levels of smog that occurs when everyone doesn't have electricity? Women all ready to go back to using squirrel pelts once a month, having their men go out and kill so they can come home and clean it...get rid of refridgeration?

It is funny how we wax nostalgic about the good old days never realizing these are the good old days...

But what is the largest problem in the world today...feeding and housing and caring for the increasing population?? And how many blue eyed white people are duplicating and triplicating and quadrupling themselves. Forget the octomom, she is an anomoly...blue eyed white people are not replicating themselves the world is being overpopulated by brown eyed folks that aren't pigment deprived...oops.

[Dream]

Originally Posted by Wikipedia.org article Good Neighbor Policy

Giving up unpopular military intervention, the United States shifted to other methods to maintain its influence in Latin America: Pan-Americanism, support for strong local leaders, the training of national guards, economic and cultural penetration, Export-Import Bank loans, financial supervision, and political subversion. The Good Neighbor Policy meant that the United States would keep its eye on Latin America in a more peaceful tone. On March 4, 1933, Roosevelt stated during his inaugural address that: "In the field of world policy I would dedicate this nation to the policy of the good neighbor--the neighbor who resolutely respects himself and, because he does so, respects the rights of others."

This economic policy developed from a distaste for war, and it was hoped-to-be an improvement over military alliance based diplomacy. WWI proved the failure of simple military alliances. It had been hoped that military alliances would prevent a world war, not cause a global one; but this hope had proven horribly false! The US then opened up to trade with financially unstable countries, even at the price of making itself economically vulnerable. This was for the sake of peace. Industries were sent overseas, huge tariffs repealed. In half a century, the US has gone from being completely economically independent to a completely dependent economic pawn, but apparently, economic diplomacy is also on the verge of failure.

President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silvamade just wanted to say that the poor should not have to suffer from the mistakes of the rich. Ok, ideally we poor people shouldn't, but we always have even on the sunniest days. Hopefully this will change in the future, but mankind has not found the way to make that change. (Communist countries are all about eliminating the rich classes but they have merely created new ones.) Anyway, equality for rich and poor seems like an odd demand coming from the President of Brazil. Slums of Rio de Jeneiro? Back at you, man. I think the race card clouds the discussion. The rich determine everything. If it is 'White' then it is white. If it is the wealthy, then let us admit it.

[Pathless]

The links to discussions of white privilege were put up in response to Nick A's OP, in order to provide some context for why such a statement might have been made, and how it might even have some validity. I see that they have touched a couple of nerves.

[Dream]

So it is much ado about nothing, then? You could have told me earlier.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Pathless

The links to discussions of white privilege were put up in response to Nick A's OP, in order to provide some context for why such a statement might have been made, and how it might even have some validity. I see that they have touched a couple of nerves.

Namaste Pathless,

I missed the link, and now that I have read it think it improperly titled. It should read "majority privilige" And it is quickly eroding in the US as it is stated as it will not be the case in decades to come...

However it wasn't the impetus of my comments as I hadn't read it... My comments simply relate along the lines of what is to be expected?

As I think we all benefit from the greed of those who created this nation, (to find such benefit realize you would not be reading this without the likes of Rockefeller, Carnegie, Gates, AT&T, Monsanto, Ford, etc. (hee hee of interest 10 greatest entrepreneurs of all time - Small business- msnbc.com)) and like anything, we also have issues with the side affects of that greed.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Luiz da Silvaback also said, according to Gordon Brown in a speech yesterday, that, and I'm paraphrasing, " When I was a Trade Unionist, I blamed the Government. When I was in the opposition, I blamed the Government, When I got in Government I blamed Western government".

There is always someone else to blame, if thats what you want to do.

It is a heck of a lot easier than assuming any personal responsibilty which is too insulting to even consider.

[citizenzen]

Excerpts from the Wikipedia article on Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (bolding mine)...

Around that time, he became involved in union activities and held several important union posts. Brazil's dictatorship strongly curbed trade unions' activities, and as a reaction Lula's views moved further to the political left.

On 10 February 1980, a group of academics, intellectuals, and union leaders, including Lula, founded the Partido dos Trabalhadores (PT) or Workers' Party, a left-wing party with progressive ideas created in the midst of the military dictatorship.

In 1983 he helped found the Central Única dos Trabalhadores (CUT) union association. In 1984 PT and Lula joined the popular Diretas Já campaign, demanding a direct popular vote for the next Brazilian presidential election. According to the 1967 Constitution, Presidents were then elected by both Houses of Congress in joint session, plus representatives of all State Legislatures, but this was widely recognized as a mere sham as, since the March 1964 coup d'état, only high-level military personnel (all retired generals) chosen after a closed military caucus had been so "elected". As a direct result of the campaign and after years of popular struggle, the 1989 elections were the first to elect a president by direct popular vote in 29 years.

Silva and his cabinet followed in part with the ideals of the previous government, by renewing all agreements with the International Monetary Fund, which were signed by the time Argentina defaulted on its own deals in 2001. His government achieved a satisfactory primary budget surplus in the first two years, as required by the IMF agreement, exceeding the target for the third year. In late 2005, the government paid off its debt to the IMF in full, two years ahead of schedule. By following the macroeconomic agenda of the previous government, three years after the election, Lula had slowly but firmly gained the market's confidence, and sovereign risk indexes fell to around 250 points. The government's choice of inflation targeting kept the economy stable, and was complimented during the 2005 World Economic Forum in Davos.

After decades as the largest emerging market debtor, Brazil became a net foreign creditor for the first time in January 2008. By mid-2008, both Fitch ratings and S&P had elevated the classification of Brazilian debt from speculative to investment grade.

According to The Economist of 2 March 2006, Lula has a pragmatic foreign policy, seeing himself as a negotiator, not an ideologue. As a result, he has befriended both Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez and former U.S. President George W. Bush.

During the Lula administration, Brazilian foreign trade has increased dramatically, changing from deficits to several surpluses since 2003. In 2004 the surplus reached $29 billion due to a substantial increase in global demand for commodities. Brazil has also sent troops and leads a peace-keeping mission in Haiti.

Lula's popularity is in part due to his ability to communicate to the Brazilian people in a simple language, unlike several politicians who speak in a more complex way. Lula is known for his metaphors and comparisons, which he uses to express complex opinions more simply, or to criticize people without offending them*.






*Until now.