I'm trying to convert a friend. Can you help me? - Page 2

Faithfulservant · 01-31-2005, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Well I would say that this is a statement from the church of Rome who saught to control the masses when the bible was constructed. Interesting I posted a quote from the Pope here a couple of weeks ago that stated all can find their way to GOD and it does not need to be through Jesus, so the Pope was confirming that there are many paths to GOD not just one way or through one faith or religion.

The truth will set us free when Rome reveals all of the truth about Jesus and his teachings.

Are we here to save the world, part of our purpose is certainly to serve others, showing them the way of how they can save themselves from darkness, just like Jesus the healer did. We were given two keys to truth one leads to the black hole and the other to completion, it is what we do with our energy and light that counts.

The eye of the needle is an interesting one, leaving the past behind of all that no longer serves us. Many are not prepared to let go of attachment to enable themselves to walk through the gate and create the Kingdom of GOD. And Christ told me 'nobody will be refused, spiritual, non-spiritual, religious, non-religous, rich or poor all are welcome to create the Kingdom of Love. Hand in hand, side by side in the front line.

Blessings in Abundance

Sacredstar

So you're basically saying that Rome sabbotaged the entire bible? Thats a cop out if you ask me. I see people taking parts of the bible they want for themselves then using that excuse as a reason for not taking the rest of the stuff that they dont like as the word of God. You cant have it both ways you either believe or you dont.. By rejecting one part of Jesus you're rejecting the whole. By rejecting any part of Gods word you are rejecting it as a whole. All throughout the bible it is written that it is inspired and written by the Holy Spirit. Oh wait.. Rome must have added that too.. LOL

Oh..have to add.. this post is my belief as a Christian.

Faithfulservant · 01-31-2005, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh

Jesus said that we are the light of the world, and that we shouldn't put our light under a basket. Do you want your friend to know who Jesus is? Show them. Show them by being who Jesus was, and doing the things that Jesus did. Then when your friend looks at the world and sees all the filth and vanity and evil, they will be drawn to you; they will see your light contrasted against the darkness, and they will wonder how it is possible that someone so good could exist in a world that's so bad. And they will come to you.

Jesus said that he would make his apostles fishers of men. Have you ever been fishing? Which is the easiest way: To seek the fish, or to let the fish seek you-- to take the bait? Your character is the bait that will draw others to you in due time.

Does that make sense to you?

Great response Marsh

Faithfulservant · 01-31-2005, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Indeed, and it's definitely a point worth noting.

I guess my own concerns would be:

1. That seeking to "convert" someone as an un-Christian thing to do, because it almost seems to reduce Christianity to the equivalence of a legal contract that must be signed - or be damned - rather than an important and emotional experience of open-ness with God.

2. That I've already seen instances elsewhere on the net where Christians tell each other they are not "true" Christians and damned to Hell based on denomination - which refers to my objection above, simply in terms of the conversion being a meaningless denominational concern, rather than a real invitation to feel God.

Brian.. I disagree. Read Marsh's post.. Jesus called us to be fishers of men. We are told to go out and spread the gospel. How else are people to know the means of salvation if they dont even know who Jesus is or what his purpose was? As far as denominations are concerned Christ taught against organized religion...........He scolded the priests for the doctrines and hypocrasy I agree with that you say in the #2 segment. People are so caught up in the Church doctrine that they forget what God says in the bible.

Faithfulservant · 01-31-2005, 06:25 AM

Mariah.. I know what your feeling. I just want you to know that like Basstian said you have to pray and let your light shine. The most powerful thing you can do for these friends is to pray for them. Basstia thank you for that wonderful post.

Basstian · 01-31-2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

So you're basically saying that Rome sabbotaged the entire bible? Thats a cop out if you ask me. I see people taking parts of the bible they want for themselves then using that excuse as a reason for not taking the rest of the stuff that they dont like as the word of God. You cant have it both ways you either believe or you dont.. By rejecting one part of Jesus you're rejecting the whole. By rejecting any part of Gods word you are rejecting it as a whole. All throughout the bible it is written that it is inspired and written by the Holy Spirit. Oh wait.. Rome must have added that too.. LOL

I am sorry this is not an easy post I hope it brings self examination and not offence. I had stopped posting on the why Sunday because I didnt want to offend I still dont but your statment

Quote:

Rest assured there is some basis for the position that Christians are not obliged to keep the Sabbath or worship God on Saturday as opposed to Sunday. For example, in Colossians 2:16 Paul says that we are not to allow anyone to judge us in this matter of keeping the Sabbath. On the other hand, the Sabbath is not merely a Jewish regulation at all. The Sabbath is inextricably woven together with creation: For God Himself rested on the seventh day (Gen. 2:1-3). Not only that, but the Sabbath just happens to be one of the Ten Commandments, which most Christians regard as a summary of God’s moral code.

The truth is, the observance of Sunday rather than Saturday does not violate God’s Commandments at all! The Sabbath command in the Old Testament never specified a “Saturday” observance; rather, it was simply a command that we should observe a cycle of six days of work and then rest for one day. So obviously, the intent of the Sabbath command is kept when we rest on Saturday or on Sunday, it really doesn’t matter.

Not only that, but there is also some evidence that Sunday worship was practiced in the New Testament Church. As an example, in Acts we read about an evening meeting of the church on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7). And Paul instructed the Corinthians to take up a collection on the first day of the week (1 Cor. 16:2). When John says in Revelation that he was “in the Spirit on the Lord’s day” (Rev. 1:10), he appears to be referring to a day of the week set aside for the Lord, and not the traditional, Jewish Sabbath day.

In fact, in none of these passages is Sunday worship commanded. Christians are no more required to make Sunday their day of rest than they are to make Saturday their day of rest. However, of course, they are perfectly free to do so. In fact, to criticize Sunday observance and then to separate from the rest of the church over something like this, is both legalistic and divisive.

Ignoring the fact that in the book of acts the sabbath was observed over ten times with some being observed in the same city for several weeks in a row Not to mention being in Jersulem 50 days after the passover that Jesus was crucified at the time of the pentacost . And knowing that the seventh day of the week has not changed since the time of Christ even our calanders today pertray sunday as the first day and saturaday as the seventh day . To top this off you refer to John being in the spirit on the Lords Day a common term for the end of the world in propephcey ie the Day of the Lord even if it was sunday it was not a call to worship. Paul preached on the first day of the weak yes he came on what would be our saturday night preached till midnight the Kid fell out of the window he raised him from the dead and continued preaching till morning being ready to part on the morrow which by any historians know how the day began at sunset would have saw as being daylight Sunday. He called for offereing to be gathered on the first day of the week so as not to be a distraction when he came doesnt sound like any reference to a worsip service where they pass the plate.

Quote:

I see people taking parts of the bible they want for themselves then using that excuse as a reason for not taking the rest of the stuff that they dont like as the word of God. You cant have it both ways you either believe or you dont.. By rejecting one part of Jesus you're rejecting the whole. By rejecting any part of Gods word you are rejecting it as a whole.

These are your words I would like to see all the scripture not just a couple your Pastor has taught you, I am not calling you on this to cause Division I am calling on you to Give me BIBLCAL proof of more that just a couple missinterpreted scriptures to help clear this up for me and for you I would be more that happy to take this back to the sunday thread and I deeply apologize for bringing the topic here.

Peace Please Peace

Faithfulservant · 01-31-2005, 07:45 AM

I dont see how you can take those scriptures out of context.. Im not trying to beat you up about your belief Im trying to show you the freedom that you have through the grace of Jesus. You just called me a hyprocrite and I have Showed extensively in the Why Sunday thread my beliefs on that subject. What I was referring to on this post was how Someone can post scriptures as a source of reference then when others do the same they say ohhh those scriptures are corrupt.
I will be as plain as day on here.. Nowhere in the OT does it call SATURDAY as being the SABBATH.. God said we are to work 6 days then rest.. DO you honestly think that God created the world monday-friday and rested on the roman calendar day SATURDAY? Think about it!! use the brain the good lord gave you and try to reason it out in your head without being an advocate of the roman calendar.

You are injecting a law based on a Roman Calendar. I work 6 days I rest with my lord on the seventh.. why is that so hard to understand.

Matthew 11:28-29 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

He is my sabbath in him I rest from my labor and dreary days. I take his yoke upon me because its easy to bear his burden on me is light. I learn from him he is gentle and lowly in heart. He gives me rest for my soul. Amen

Basstian · 01-31-2005, 08:37 AM

I fear I have set an example to our friend who is asking for help in leading her friends to salvation ..... and a negative one that

I must now make this right
Servant please Forgive me we are both very strong in our faith and our Doctrine.
I am reminded of when Paul and Baranbas were leaving on a trip Barnabas wanted to take John Mark his Cousin Paul Held that Mark had deserted the in Pamphylia and was not willing to take him again this resulted in a split where Barnabas and mark went there way preaching the Gospel and Silas and Paul went theres and many great works were done by both teams.
I have made a terrible mistake in my implications. The Doctrine I live by has the ability to reach people and lead them to Christ I pray that Happen. The doctrine That you live Buy has the abbility to reach people and lead them to Christ also I pray it does.
Any body who reads this form Let it be know that I consider Faithful servant my Brethren and wish her nothing but good will and Gods blessings

To the starter of this thread a lesson from this for you.
Had your friends you are trying to lead to Christ read this dispute I would have been ashamed on my part.
Paul described to levels of Gospel Milk for Babes in Christ and Meat for who have progressed to that stage of there Christian life.
Dont make the Mistake of feeding meat like you have read here to Babes in Christ Keep it simple

And again Faithful I as In Gods Name you forgive me as well as the rest who have seen this dispute.

Hold none of this against our friend Faithful Servant I left her no choice but to defend her faith.

Peace

Faithfulservant · 01-31-2005, 09:00 AM

There is nothing to forgive.. we are in agreement on the most important part of it all .. Jesus Christ who alone saves us. Be at peace Basstian we are both human beings and only hope to achieve the perfection of our Lord who would have probably scolded the both of us harshly.

wouldnt that have been grand?

Sacredstar · 01-31-2005, 12:39 PM

When there is anguish or frustration there is impatience, we are not being guided by GOD in our soul but by human will it is for you to differientate between the two. We are given many tests upon our journey and this one may be for you Mariah, the heart can speak with many tongues. When GOD is guiding you there is pure peace and this peace emanates from you to others. GOD gave us the greatest gift of free will, and so it is the other people have free will and this should be honoured always.

Respect is a state of being but to honour another is to pay homage to their sacred divinity. So Mariah ask yourself how AM I paying homage to the other's free will and sacred divinity and why should I wish to control the outcome?

The one thing that I have learnt in recent years is that when it is GOD's will it is effortless, GOD does all the work all we have to do is choose to align our will with GOD's will.

If you push your beliefs on unwilling ears they will just move away more and more, they will disconnect with you energetically and turn away. So more damage can be done then good so be careful what you choose to do and say. For it is for the soul themself to find GOD in their own way and in their own time, it is their saced journey and soul's evolution to find the path to peace and their way home to oneness with GOD.

As Jesus said 'Let those that have the ears to hear, let them hear, Let those that have the eyes to see, let them see then their hearts will embrace.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

Sacredstar · 01-31-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

So you're basically saying that Rome sabbotaged the entire bible? Thats a cop out if you ask me. I see people taking parts of the bible they want for themselves then using that excuse as a reason for not taking the rest of the stuff that they dont like as the word of God. You cant have it both ways you either believe or you dont.. By rejecting one part of Jesus you're rejecting the whole. By rejecting any part of Gods word you are rejecting it as a whole. All throughout the bible it is written that it is inspired and written by the Holy Spirit. Oh wait.. Rome must have added that too.. LOL

Oh..have to add.. this post is my belief as a Christian.

Dear Faithfulservant

If you have the ears to hear, the eyes to see and the heart to embrace I recommend you seriously look at the how the bible was complied as scholars have done. St Jerome's letters are particularly revealing. I have looked at many scriptures and what resonates with my heart and soul. As Jesus said scripture is dead you will only find the living GOD in your heart.

I am also a Christian and work with Christ and his legions of light but I listen and abide by GOD's words given to me direct not a book compiled by man to control the masses. One does not need an intermediary when one is in communion with GOD. I and my father are one.

"GOD is love and love is the way to live life forevermore."

GOD's words not mine.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

Sacredstar · 01-31-2005, 01:13 PM

Interesting a few weeks ago I was reading about one of the ancient philosophers who talked about there had always been eight days in the week, I will have to look at the reference and interesting to note how seven started in the first place. Could make an interesting thread if I can locate the original reference.

Sacredstar

Bandit · 01-31-2005, 04:28 PM

Rome had 300 years to establish a religion before the bible was ever passed out.
IOW- a mind set of how it should be through the Nicene Creed and things like that.
They did not want the people to have bibles. What we see today are those traditions being kept by some and also being broken by others.
I don't think Rome messed with the bible enough to change the true meanings in the scripture because God just would not allow it. We need to also remember Joseph how he was sold into slavery but became a right hand man to pharao to establish.

I see Rome as very crooked and in many ways twistng the truth. But within that God had His hand in it, preserving all of the truth for the right day, for the perfecting of the saints.
There is no difference in what Rome tried then, and what people are doing today by altering scriptures into 20 different versions of the same book.

There are many supposed methods for salvation today. I would reccomend looking not only at what Jesus said and taught, but also EVERYTHING that the Apostles did and taught. It was passed down to them by Jesus and they recieved power when the Holy Ghost came to fulfill what Jesus gave them to do.

I am seeing the Keys to the Kingdom are the
death
burial
and resurrection
of Jesus.
Death-Repentance and remission of sins
Burial-Buried with Christ in a water baptism
Resurrection- Made alive with Christ recieving the Holy Ghost.

Matt16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 16:17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 16:20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Below is the very FIRST sermon ever taught by the apostles after they had recieved the Holy Ghost, the message was about salvation- the keys to the Kingdom- DEATH, BURIAL, RESURRECTION.

Acts2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
2:37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
2:40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
2:41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
2:42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. .........2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

2:47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Bandit · 01-31-2005, 05:06 PM

I want to add, what everyone here has said is true, but I will not base my salvation on anything outside of the DEATH BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Jesus.

Everything about it comes under his death, burial and resurrection.

That is how I see it.

I, Brian · 01-31-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Brian.. I disagree. Read Marsh's post.. Jesus called us to be fishers of men. We are told to go out and spread the gospel. How else are people to know the means of salvation if they dont even know who Jesus is or what his purpose was? As far as denominations are concerned Christ taught against organized religion...........He scolded the priests for the doctrines and hypocrasy I agree with that you say in the #2 segment. People are so caught up in the Church doctrine that they forget what God says in the bible.

Indeed - and Marsh makes the point of showing by example to gain converts. Nearly caught me that way before now.

Marsh · 02-01-2005, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

As Jesus said scripture is dead you will only find the living GOD in your heart.

I agree that God lives within us, but please refresh my memory of when Jesus said that scripture is dead? I seem to remember Jesus using scripture extensively in his ministry; why would Life use something dead to teach with?