imagine there is nothing to fear

[shadowman]

but if the thing we are believing in is in the position to make us feel like we will be sorry if we dont beleive in him(many people msulims and chrisitans think its better to be safe, and believe), then is it good and worthy of belief?


why is it even considered normal to even debate whether things that have to be believed in to be believed in should be believed in?

imagine that there is nothing to fear. its kind of impossible to imagine because to truly beleive there is nothing to fear, we would have to imagine that it doesnt matter if anything bad happens to us, but try hard. im not saying its a good goal to beleive that it doesnt matter if anything bad happens to us, but thinking about things like this helps us realize what fear is, and why we fear things...

then one by one look at what systems we have that are in a position to be feared, and why.

and in what stuations are they to be feared.

humans have the possiblity to do anything, so they can be feared if they have the possiblity to do something bad to us.

sin in us can be feared because it corrupts us or makes us not good, or makes us something that we think should be feared.

sin in others can be feared because it can make us into something we dont think is good, or it can harm us.

evil can be feared for similar reasons.

I seperate evil and sin because they are defined differently.

evil could be argued to be totally relative, but lets say that evil is something that harms or wants to harm humans.

lets say sin is something that god doesnt like.

in many ways of thinking about the two terms, they line up.

but in a few ways of thinking they dont. (actually in both cases the possiblities of thinking are infinite i guess)

for example

punching someone or yelling at someone is both evil and sinful in most cases.

but sex could be seen as sinful (and therefore evil)

or as an act of affection, assuming that god doesnt think its evil.

belief in things dont usually matter on some grand "moral" scale, but to a god, its many times a sin to not believe in something.

it depends on what we define as bad, and what we define as things to be feared and why.

god is fearable because we have defined him to be so.

this is why I Said imagine there is nothing to fear, seriosuly try and imagine.

then you will see how much fear god and his interaction in our world (or his world) causes.

its fine for god to hurt us, and its fine for it to be his world and not ours, and its fine if god wants to get all the glory and praise, and its fine if he wants to make things uncomfortable for us if we disagree with him or do sometihng he doesnt like.

why is it fine? becuase in many definitions of god, hes the one that matters and we dont!

so if thats how things are then its fine because thats how things are and theres nothing we can do about it.

its fine for god, and its fine for everything, because we dont matter. and that changes thought processes.

something like this god could obviosuly be feared.

but its not good. at least not in the definition where good means "nothing bad happens to us"

in a definition where good is defined by what god does and wills, then its ok for us to fear god, and be hurt by him, because in those rules, we deserve it, and theres nothing we can do about it.

again

things that cause fear for us are usually not good for us, unless definitions are being radically shifted under our noses.

and Im thinking that this is what religions do in many cases.

[wil]

Namaste ShadowMan...

I love all the contemplations the title conjures up...that and your moniker...the shadow...a shadow man...

'imagine there is nothing to fear'

Shouldn't be hard, should it? After all 99.99% of what we fear is imagined. And how often does our imagination fulfill selffulfiling prophecy? Just enough for us to continue the bad habit...despite the fact that most of our fears never appear!

So that guy in the shadows...says..imagine there is nothing to fear!

When in truth there is nothing to fear!

There you are standing at the bottom of a cliff as a shadow appears around your feet. It grows exponentially and you look up to see the piano falling. Either move, so it doesn't hit you...nothing to fear....or it hits you...nothing to fear...

Can't hardly imagine fearing the future....I imagine I'll continue looking forward to what is coming round the next corner.

[Prober]

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 16:25

"...Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Rev 14:7

[shadowman]

fear! judgement! death!

seems like the bible has a lot of threats

what would we think of a political system that used these kind of tactics?

[LeoSalinas22]

our righteousness is a filthy rag. no system made by man will last. only our Father in heaven will make a Kingdom that will last unto eternity.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Prober

"...Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Rev 14:7

My understanding is that the words used in reference to fearing G-d in the bible could also be translated as 'respect'. As in we must respect a knife...even though it is quite valuable, it is also sharp. I don't think one has a need to fear a knife unless it is wielded by an entity with less than honorable intentions.

[Pico]

Yes, when it says to "Fear God" in the Bible it does not mean to be afraid of him or anything, but to think of Him with a reverential awe.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by wil

My understanding is that the words used in reference to fearing G-d in the bible could also be translated as 'respect'. As in we must respect a knife...even though it is quite valuable, it is also sharp. I don't think one has a need to fear a knife unless it is wielded by an entity with less than honorable intentions.

Yeah, I agree. And I was thinking of that as I used the text. I should have clarified...

I think the danger in thinking you don't have to fear G-d is relaxing and thinking you don't have to respect Him.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Pico

Yes, when it says to "Fear God" in the Bible it does not mean to be afraid of him or anything, but to think of Him with a reverential awe.

How about in the context of telling us not to fear something of this world but instead fear Him who can kill us then send us to hell... thats a pretty serious thing to be afraid of. Its the same fear that a child has when they disobey the parent and know they are about to get the whipping of their life... Thats a bit more than reverential awe imo.

[earl]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

How about in the context of telling us not to fear something of this world but instead fear Him who can kill us then send us to hell... thats a pretty serious thing to be afraid of. Its the same fear that a child has when they disobey the parent and know they are about to get the whipping of their life... Thats a bit more than reverential awe imo.

While I don't think of God in anthropomorphic ways, when it comes to this view in certain Christian camps, I think the parent metaphor is apt-we have a word for parents who'd kill their children-"sociopath." So, if we're going to imagine "God" demonstrating various human attributes, I'd imagine something greater than humanity is typically capable of. take care, earl

[wil]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

How about... fear Him who can kill us then send us to hell... thats a pretty serious thing to be afraid of...

If He were arbitrarily just killing...not much need to fear as my thoughts and actions don't matter to an arbitrary event. If He were justly killing and sending to hell...I make my choices and decide whether carnal, material needs in this life are more important than my fear. As I have gained respect for the power, love and grace of G-d, I am not in fear of being punished for anything that is due me from the ways of my past, nor am I believing He's rolling the dice and arbitrarilly passing judgement. Therefor I have no fear of G-d. I have a love of G-d, and tons of respect.

[earl]

This is the Christian forum but please indulge me for the moment. In Buddhism they traditionally speak of various mind states and corresponding "realms of reality" that depending upon the practitioner may be interpretted soley symbolically or literally. So for instance they acknowledge a "hell realm" where an individual suffers greatly-for a period of time. Since Buddhism has no "judging" Creator God, their notion of which realm we end up in is based on "karma"-that is our realities are reflective of our state of mind so "hellish" states of mind put us in "hellish" places literally. What's interesting about that tradition is their view of boundless compassion as exemplified by 1 of their bodhisattvas, Ksitigharba. That "higher being" is traditionally seen as one who travels to the hell realms with great compassion to guide suffering beings to better realms of "reality/truth." To them, hell isn't forever-it lasts only until you see and embrace the "grace" of the compassion and wisdom awaiting you. I would think Christ would do no less. earl

[Faithfulservant]

People live every mortal day of their life with consequences... what makes anyone think that they can live eternally without the same consequences that God created in the first place. God is preparing his creation for eternity by teaching it His lessons. We either learn the consequences of our choices before we die.. or we learn them afterwards when its too late...

[Faithfulservant]

It keeps coming to me that everyone wants forgiveness but arent willing to repent.. My children do this to me.. they want me to forgive them when they disobey but hate telling me they're sorry. Its humanity.. God taught us everything we need to know in our basic instincts on how to raise our own children... why is it so hard to believe we arent supposed to apply it to our heavenly parent???

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

People live every mortal day of their life with consequences... what makes anyone think that they can live eternally without the same consequences that God created in the first place. God is preparing his creation for eternity by teaching it His lessons. We either learn the consequences of our choices before we die.. or we learn them afterwards when its too late...

That is a good way to put it