In the beginning was the Logos

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Prober

Okay! So check this - does it fit in...?

The hebrew priests blasted such a horrible discordant note that the walls of Jerico collapsed. Sound used to create and destroy?

I've read some tibetan texts about moving objects with sound, etc.

1 Corinthians 1:22-24
22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

[pfw]

There's been quite a lot of reasurch into 'sound as a weapon' in recent decades- seems that they think it's possible but unweildy at the moment. If I remember correctly there's a book called 'The Gods Of Eden' that put forward the theory that the Isralites used a sonic weapon to destroy Jerico- and there's been some interesting stuff about how much the 'ancients' knew about sonics and sound.

[flowperson]

pfw:

In the work and reading I've done there does appear to be a pervading and harmonic array of acoustic wave forms that compose some sort of scaffolding for the universal structure ( I'd say matrix, but that's too simple a concept since it's multidimensional beyond our four.). Current ideas are that the universe is a bulk of branes ( membranes) upon which are arrayed the stuff that's in there and out there.

The two new high energy colliders will begin to tell us more about the picture when they power-up over the next ten years or so beginning with CERNS's new toy this fall.
Our sun constantly washes us with not only light and heat, but zillions of low-frequency acoustic wave forms.
The Earth also generates them. As above, so below... and everything here is likely reflective of that.

Oh... and there's more than a little evidence pointing to the fact that RNA and DNA are based upon some sort of musically structured scaffolding.

Yeah...G-d. Music !

Just think of it all as "... music of the spheres?".

You may also want to look at some older posts by Marietta that tried to formalize some similar ideas, but she hasn't shown up for a while. Not avant garde' enough around here probably.

CHEERS !

flow....

[China Cat Sunflower]

I would say that there is an essential duality, not of mind and body, but of mind and Mind. Local consciousness and global consciousness. But beyond that there seems to be a transcendental realm of undiferentiated, transitory archetypes, or universal, as yet non-localized, harmonically "structured" building materials existing only as potentiality just waiting to be crystalized, actualized, by the presence of an observer. This presupposes that quantum non-locality cannot function without the potential for classical objectification.

If that makes any sense, then when considering the nature of the Logos we could say that it is that harmonic proto-structure, that undiferentiated archetypal pre-substance, that makes it possible for consciousness, both global and local to emerge.

Chris

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, pfw!

BTW, I don't believe we have formally met before, welcome to CR!

Originally Posted by pfw

There's been quite a lot of reasurch into 'sound as a weapon' in recent decades- seems that they think it's possible but unweildy at the moment. If I remember correctly there's a book called 'The Gods Of Eden' that put forward the theory that the Isralites used a sonic weapon to destroy Jerico- and there's been some interesting stuff about how much the 'ancients' knew about sonics and sound.

An interesting point of view. Seems I recall Noriega was dethroned in part by U.S. Marines blasting Rock'n'Roll music...psyops,

I seem to recall reading in the early '90's about some experimental sonic weapons, large enough to be mounted on trucks, that could do some really nasty things to humans...

The book you mention sounds rather like something Von Daniken might write...

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I would say that there is an essential duality, not of mind and body, but of mind and Mind. Local consciousness and global consciousness. But beyond that there seems to be a transcendental realm of undiferentiated, transitory archetypes, or universal, as yet non-localized, harmonically "structured" building materials existing only as potentiality just waiting to be crystalized, actualized, by the presence of an observer. This presupposes that quantum non-locality cannot function without the potential for classical objectification.

If that makes any sense, then when considering the nature of the Logos we could say that it is that harmonic proto-structure, that undiferentiated archetypal pre-substance, that makes it possible for consciousness, both global and local to emerge.

Hmmm...does G-d count as an observer?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

I go away for a couple of days, and this thread takes off! Hmmm...I wonder if that implies anything?

Anyway, I tried to spend a little time looking into Stoic morality, and I am surprized how "Christian" it seems, minus Jesus. Haven't gotten anywhere near understanding at a coherent level, but I am intrigued.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hey Juan,

I've been doing a little thinking and reading, and Thomas' thread on Christianity brought something up. Colossians is psuedo-pauline. It was written sometime in the the late 70's or 80's. And I think that if you look at Colossians carefully, compared to Pauls stuff, and especially the earliest of his writings, you can see the Stoic influence begin to emerge.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

Hmmm...does G-d count as an observer?

Not really under those terms. Hey, I was just thinking out loud, not putting forth a coherent theory.

Chris

[flowperson]

China Cat...I believe that you've got it essentially correct though.

flow....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by pfw

There's been quite a lot of reasurch into 'sound as a weapon' in recent decades- seems that they think it's possible but unweildy at the moment. If I remember correctly there's a book called 'The Gods Of Eden' that put forward the theory that the Isralites used a sonic weapon to destroy Jerico- and there's been some interesting stuff about how much the 'ancients' knew about sonics and sound.

Actually, the military has an effective working model that is carried on the back of a HUMVEE. It is considered a non-lethal weapon used for riot control. The unit can focus on one individual out of a crowd, or at the crowd at large, and it does indeed make people run for cover (with no sustained damage).

The second part of your thought here deals with the physical laws of "resonant frequencies". Everything has a resonant frequency (or critical frequency), that when subjected to, can either counter or amplify to the point of structural failure. Even epileptics can be set off into a seizure by being subjected to vibration, sound or even light that has a particular frequency that the individual is sensitive to.

Another example is the propellor shafts of large ships. They each have a "critical RPM" that they can not be set to, unless one wishes to shake the ship apart. You can go above that critical RPM or stay below it...just can remain at the critical RPM for very long. Case in point would be one ship I served on for three years. Critical shaft RPM was 216. So, the Engineer would pitch out the Propellor blades and run at 214 shaft RPM, or pitch in the propellor blades and run at 218 shaft RPM. Try running at 216 shaft RPM and the whole back end of the ship would shake with tremendous violence.

[China Cat Sunflower]

That's interesting Joshua! I've been through the sound barrier in an F-16. It's interesting how accelerating or decelerating through it there' a shaking, buffeting, and then one sorta leaps to the other side. I don't know if that's related to what you're talking about.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

That's interesting Joshua! I've been through the sound barrier in an F-16. It's interesting how accelerating or decelerating through it there' a shaking, buffeting, and then one sorta leaps to the other side. I don't know if that's related to what you're talking about.

Chris

Indeed, the sound barrier is a critical frequency, and the same principles apply. Same with a helicopter pilot "overtorquing" his rotor wings (blades) which spin at near speed of sound to begin with, by pitching the blades out in order to gain more lift, or pull out of a decent, too fast. The vibratory frequencies exerted on the transmission can tear it to pieces (not the load itself).

v/r

Joshua

[Thomas]

This is one of those avenues that becomes really interesting for someone who really doesn't know enough about what he's talking about ... but let me try and make myself intelligible...

'Number' is an intellectual concept that has no existence in material reality – you cannot show me 'two' – you can show me 2 apples, etc, you can show me quantities of things, but take the things away and the numbers alter, and when the last thing is gone, the number has gone too ... so numbers in that sense are abstract ...

So 'number' defines and determines not 'things' but the relationships of things, in the same way that things themselves are defined according to every other thing – thus 'big', 'red', 'heavy', 'thin', 'translucent', 'flexible' etc., are all relative terms ... even the thing itself: 'that is an apple' is defined by virtue of qualities that other fruits do not have, whereas 'that is a red fruit' is indeterminate...

What I'm flailing at here, is its all about relation ... and right relation is justice ... (mercy is allowance when that relation goes out of kilter)... and the Principle of Right Relation is the Logos, the ontological source of all relation ordered according to its own essence and nature ...

Oh, good grief ... an epiphanic moment ...

Anaximander said:
"Whence things have their origin,
Thence also their destruction happens,
According to necessity;
For they give to each other justice and
recompense For their injustice
In conformity with the ordinance of Time."

Anaximander spoke of Apeiron (The Boundless) which the Fathers saw as The Father, and the Arche (Principle) whom they see as The Son (and is spoken both in the Septuagint Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1)

So God the Father is the Arche Anarchos (Principle without Principle), whilst the Son is Arche, (Principle), and thus of the same essence as the Father...

"For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:20

"Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you."
6:33

"That being delivered from the hand of our enemies, we may serve him without fear: In holiness and justice before him, all our days."
Luke 1:74-75

"And of justice: because I go to the Father: and you shall see me no longer."
16:10

"For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith."
Romans 1:17

"But now, without the law, the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets."
3:21

The above verse, along with many others, allude to 'justice' expressing, in Hebraic terms, everything that 'Logos' expresses in Greek.

I've got to go away, pen and paper, work this out ...

... thanks all ... later ...

Thomas

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Thomas

What I'm flailing at here, is its all about relation ... and right relation is justice ... (mercy is allowance when that relation goes out of kilter)... and the Principle of Right Relation is the Logos, the ontological source of all relation ordered according to its own essence and nature ...

Thomas

The symbol for justice is the scales.