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[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by c0de

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All this proves is that you still haven't understood the fact that the age of marriage has nothing to do with religious values in society. Trying to link the two was the essence of your "judgment", and the fact that you have ignored all the evidence in favor of your initial assessment, also proves the nature of your own biases.

This is why I refused to apologize to you because I knew your real motives were far from sound and rooted in a deep hatred of everything Islamic.

no not really code, i am not passing judgment here, but you are yet again

i have no hatred of Islam so please withdraw your allegation

[c0de]

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

i am not passing judgment here

If that is really the case then I apologize sincerely.

i have no hatred of Islam

I am happy to hear this.

[GlorytoGod]

got to say though nice troll job by Wil

[wil]

Troll job?? I think not. We are currently getting the western media's and the biased side of these events. I was asking for an Islamic viewpoint, seeking to understand how a Muslim saw the same events.

Two things are out there which I'd like to hear perspectives on.


The killings in Texas. How do you see it, what do you think will be the reprecussions.


The story circulating of 450 men in Gaza marrying young (way preteen) girls and Hamas paying them each $500 to do so. Is it true?

How I wish Muslimwoman was around as she would have simply provided an answer.

Code, I was expecting something along the lines of, "The guy had issues obviously and went off like any crackpot" and "Yeah this is a local custom, like camel racing, they aren't really married, it is a ceremonial thing, the child goes back to live with her parents...."

I don't know how you see it, what you think, hence my reason for asking. I believe the big issue in the world is you fellas get onesided news from your sources we get one sided 'news' from our sources and neither gets the whole story...

And now my question is why you refuse to simply answer the question?

[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by wil

Troll job?? I think not. We are currently getting the western media's and the biased side of these events. I was asking for an Islamic viewpoint, seeking to understand how a Muslim saw the same events.How I wish Muslimwoman was around as she would have simply provided an answer.

thats what it looked like inflammatory post then disappeared under your bridge like any good troll

[wil]

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

thats what it looked like inflammatory post then disappeared under your bridge like any good troll

Namaste G2G,

I was gone on vacation but...it is interesting, seens like the pot calling the kettle black what do you find inflammatory about my posts 1 & 3 as compared to your post 5?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

The prophet Mohamed PBUH married Aisha when she was six years old so the marriage of preteen girls is perfectly acceptable in Islam.

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

just proves my point really that child brides are acceptable in Islam

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

i have no hatred of Islam so please withdraw your allegation

If this is true GlorytoGod I am a little confused as to why you would make the same uneducated statement (as above) twice on one thread?

Perhaps you would be better to ask Muslims what Islam says rather than telling us?

There are a number of countries where child brides are still used ... these include some African countries (where Muslim and Christian girls are sold off like cattle by their families or married off to strengthen tribal ties), Afghanistan, Pakistan (both usually in rural areas and from Muslim and other religious backgrounds) and Saudi Arabia allows marriage at puberty but I am aware of a divorce case for an 8 year old girl (I believe saudi allows child brides but does not allow consumation until puberty).

Virtually all of the child brides I have read about have been married off to pay debts off, rather than for the sexual desires of the groom.

What your statement fails to do however is question whether this is a cultural or religious practice and fails to ask how regularly this happens. Most Muslim countries have either the same or even higher legal marriage ages than Britain.

Also something you need to understand is just because the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) did something does NOT mean all Muslims can, or every Muslim man would allow himself 9 wives based on what the Prophet did. Ask virtually any Muslim and they will tell you that the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha (pbut) was about strengthening ties and nothing to do with marrying little girls per se.

Originally Posted by wil

How I wish Muslimwoman was around as she would have simply provided an answer.

Boo .... gosh i feel like a genie lol, I haven't visited the forum for so long ... my ears must have been burning today.

OK

to answer your OP Wil

the shooting of soldiers in America .... there is no answer and I honestly don't believe we will ever get the truth. Did he just flip or was he watching fundamentalist propaganda? We will never really know.

My personal guess is that he was posted to Iraq and knew he could not go to wage war against Muslims. He then started looking for answers on the net .... on what basis could he refuse to go. He probably ended up on more and more fundamental sites, which would feed his need for religious solace and build his hatred of the war over there.

Only a guess though.

The mass wedding ..... it took me a while to stop laughing LOL

I was then amazed at this thread ... can't anyone on this forum google? Muslims are trying to defend it and non-Muslims are simply going with the flow ... come on people RESEARCH.

Yes a mass wedding of 450 couples took place in gaza. Yes $500 was paid to each groom by Hamas (money gathered from their members amounting to 5% of their wage .... guessing but probably collected during ramadan as zakat (charity)) in this case to help young men who can't afford to marry get married.

In Arab countries the groom has to pay for a dowery and setting up the marital home ... many men in poor countries simply can't afford it so imagine what it's like for young men in an open prison like Gaza?!

The youngest BRIDE was 16 but most were 18.

So who are the little girls in the video? Sisters, nieces, cousins ... anyone little and cute basically. I could show you wedding photos from Islamic weddings in Egypt and all the little girls are dressed as brides (6 inches of make up included) and the little boys are dressed as grooms .... no idea why, they just think it looks cute, a bit like the little girls in pageants in US perhaps.

the girls make the most of these days, as the day makes them special. Women and men sit seperately during weddings but the little girls can go with the men, due to their age. So the girls revel in all the attention they get.

Simple answer to a silly rumour ... as usual.

[Muslimwoman]

Sorry just did some googling to see what is being said about the mass marriage .... amazing more people don't hurt themselves while scrambling to jump on the band wagon!!

Hamas denies holding mass kiddie marriage

A WND review of the video found some of the little girls, speaking in Arabic, state they are at the wedding of a family member. The girls interviewed do not say anything about themselves getting married.
Multiple calls to Palestinians who participated in the wedding affirmed the little girls are not themselves the brides.
Hamas, meanwhile, hailed the wedding ceremony as a victory.
"We are saying to the world and to America that you cannot deny us joy and happiness," Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas' chief in Gaza, told the grooms at the event.



Islamophobia. Ignorance Or Propaganda? | Gaza | Israel | Islamophobia | Foreign Matters | Sky News Blogs

This is the original story that started the whole thing ... no mention of mass child brides here though.

Gaza Wedding Report Provokes Paedo Hysteria Bartholomew’s Notes on Religion


Oh I forgot to say above .... in all Islamic weddings the women (including the bride) sit apart from the men. The actual marriage is performed between the groom and the guardian of the bride (usually her father). So you would see the Imam sitting at a table with the groom and the guardian, the groom and guardian hold hands under a cloth while the Imam performs the marriage. Then the marriage is pronounced .... then someone goes to tell the bride lol

[wil]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I could show you wedding photos from Islamic weddings in Egypt and all the little girls are dressed as brides (6 inches of make up included) and the little boys are dressed as grooms .... no idea why, they just think it looks cute, a bit like the little girls in pageants in US perhaps.

Simple answer to a silly rumour ... as usual.

Namaste MW

and as usual thank you for your response!

The above reminded me of a picture on my shelf, of my Uncle's wedding, where I was ring bearer and my cousin, flower girl. We looked like little bride and groom and if the right pictures were taken and publicized the same distortions could have been made...

[Muslimwoman]

It is certainly frightening what people WANT to believe Wil, since I posted above I have been reading the comments left on the blogs I linked to. Even though the man who started the story off and was at the wedding denies the children were brides commenters simply will not have it ... they keep asking him for proof ... madness and just shows how anti-Muslim people are becoming.

[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

If this is true GlorytoGod I am a little confused as to why you would make the same uneducated statement (as above) twice on one thread?

it is not an uneducated statement, Shariah law is based on the Quran, Sunnah and the Example of Mohamed PBUH, therefore if Mohamed did it PBUH then it acceptable in Islam, do you dispute that ?

Perhaps you would be better to ask Muslims what Islam says rather than telling us?

I am an ex Muslim and I am allowed to have an opinion on this.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Virtually all of the child brides I have read about have been married off to pay debts off, rather than for the sexual desires of the groom.

Well that makes it all fricken better then! lol... Thanks for clearing that up...... I could you know do with a little extra cheddar.... If I cook up a daughter.. You got any friends that would like to buy her from me? lol ffs....

[c0de]

Wil + G2G + Alex

Originally Posted by wil

And now my question is why you refuse to simply answer the question?

You didn't ask many questions, instead you asked about the Muslim perspective on a few items that you happened to pick up in the news.

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

it is not an uneducated statement, Shariah law is based on the Quran, Sunnah and the Example of Mohamed PBUH, therefore if Mohamed did it PBUH then it acceptable in Islam, do you dispute that?

The Prophet also rode camels. Does this all Muslims living today should be riding camels? I told you before G2G, you have to separate culture/context from religious commandments. Is there anywhere in the Quran where Muslims are encouraged that they should marry in a certain age group? No. You know why? Because such things are governed by CULTURE AND ECONOMIC MODELS OF EVERY SOCIETY.

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Well that makes it all fricken better then! lol... Thanks for clearing that up...... I could you know do with a little extra cheddar.... If I cook up a daughter.. You got any friends that would like to buy her from me? lol ffs....

You could do with a little extra something else too...

[17th Angel]

What are you on about? I totally "get" it... Great idea... I can just keep banging out kids for nothing and selling them off it's perfect... I get the morales and everything with it.... Kids aren't just kids... They are things that we can just sell to the highest bidder.... *applauds* bravo sir

[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by c0de

The Prophet also rode camels. Does this all Muslims living today should be riding camels? I told you before G2G, you have to separate culture/context from religious commandments. Is there anywhere in the Quran where Muslims are encouraged that they should marry in a certain age group? No. You know why? Because such things are governed by CULTURE AND ECONOMIC MODELS OF EVERY SOCIETY.

Sorry Code but Islam is based on the Quran and the Sunnah not just the Quran, the Prophet Mohamed PBUH was apparently the perfect example for all mankind, Muslims all over the world revere Mohamed and try to be like him, he had a beard therefore Muslim should have one as many scholars agree and Muslim men also try to dress like him by waring Arab Throbes or is it Thobes not sure but the point is that you are wrong due to the example of the Prophet child brides are acceptable in Islam, whether this is right or wrong is not for me to say, also because the Prophet wore a certain type of leather socks if you where them then you dont have to wash your feat at every wuzu unless you have done a poo.