Is Being Realistic Idolatry?

dauer · 06-13-2007, 09:08 PM

Just watched a short video on youtube with R. Michael Lerner. I get e-mail regularly fro the network of spiritual progressives. He suggests that we shouldn't be realistic in our approach to the world, that we should strive for ideals far beyond what life tends to present to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL3yF1cD2gQ

My feeling is yes, we should strive for high ideals. But it's important also to maintain some degree of realism too. What are your thoughts?

Dauer

Snoopy · 06-13-2007, 09:56 PM

Hi,

Well.....

Does it have to be an either / or ? Can't it be both?

Try to see the world realistically AND have "ideals" to try to drive improvements...

s.

JosephM · 06-13-2007, 10:11 PM

Hi Dauer,

Very inspirational message. I think the Rabbi makes a very important point and in the context of his definition of realistic, it seems to me progress is only made from those being unrealistic.

Love and Peace,
JM

Tao_Equus · 06-13-2007, 10:47 PM

I'd go with that too. If we set the bar low in our aspirations we are never going to achieve much. His example of feminism is a good one, go back to the 1950's and the majority of both sexes would have laughed out loud at what we take for granted today. You got to have a dream, If you dont have a dream, how you gona have a dream come true

TE

Paladin · 06-14-2007, 03:08 PM

I think high ideals, lofty aspirations must of necessity be centered on the individual. Thinking we can change the world assumes that we know what the world needs based on our own perceptions and value systems rather than what the world is in itself and what its purpose -if it has one-is.

Prober · 06-14-2007, 03:19 PM

Change the world
Make it a better place
For you and for me and the entire human race...
(or something like that)

I can change the world and I know what it needs.

Of course that's because I think that if you change yourself, you change the world. If you see it as a wonderful place, it is.

I think you need only as much realism as it takes to physically survive.

JosephM · 06-14-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin

I think high ideals, lofty aspirations must of necessity be centered on the individual. Thinking we can change the world assumes that we know what the world needs based on our own perceptions and value systems rather than what the world is in itself and what its purpose -if it has one-is.

Mark,

Kudos....

Joe

Snoopy · 06-14-2007, 05:53 PM

His sentiments are fine but his idea of what constitutes "reality" and "idolatry" seem rather idiosyncratic to me.

s.

wil · 06-14-2007, 07:32 PM

I can see the point....and think it valuable.

Lofty ideals create even more enhanced reality...

Bill Gates envisioned a computer on every desk..at work..and was laughed at, he admits he never thought we'd all have them in our homes...and multiples in our homes.

The telephone was thought to be something beneficial for big businesses...not everyone.

Shoot for the moon, miss and land amongst the stars!

Realistic is what is, without vision for a better future.

LeoSalinas22 · 06-14-2007, 07:59 PM

wish i could see this but my work doesn't allow access to youtube. oh well.

MindFreak666 · 06-15-2007, 02:44 AM

Having ideals and being realistic go together. Having ideals is useless unless they are practical. For ideals to be useful they have to apply to reality, they themselves have to be realistic. It is important to be realistic if you are going to have ideals otherwise your ideals remain "out there" and cannot be applied. You have to be able to apply those ideals and to do that you must be realistic.

ardenz · 06-15-2007, 10:36 PM

Idealism can seriously affect your mental health (refer to mental health thread) , because the world is just so badly f***d up. That is the reality.....just a mess. So you have to create a cocoon of safety in which to survive it - then delve into some idealism in safety. Only strong people can be truly idealistic. But I agree, unless there is a vision of something better to strive for we will just stay in this morass of desperate reality.