Is Ethics just for the lower classes?

[I, Brian]

Something I cannot help but note is that if you look at society, in terms of the business, political, and social leaders, as representing different degrees of alpha males/females, and everyone else as the ranks beneath - then something that strikes myself is how often these alphas purposefully manipulate and exploit society to their own advantage, regardless of any ethical dimension - whilst the lower classes are far more observant to ethical concerns.

Is this an observation other people would agree with?

If so, then does that therefore mean that ethics is only really a concern for the lower classes of human society?

Meaning, isn't ethics just a disposal tool - as with religious and secular values such as "god" and "freedom" - used for the manipulation and exploitation of society?

And that the empowered who wield this authority often hold themselves above the effects of this authority?

I guess it's a paraphrase of: A law for the rich, a law for the poor.

Comments?

[littlemissattitude]

Brian, I think this is an interesting question. It is, in fact, something I've been doing some thinking about recently.

I think the crux of the problem is not so much that the ruling elite doesn't practice ethics while the rest of us do. I think it is more that those who make it to the ruling elite - or positions of power of any sort - are those who don't have a problem with acting in unethical ways. They're willing to use others, willing to sell out even family members, willing to lie, cheat, and steal if necessary to reach a position of power, wealth, and authority. I don't think this is necessarily true just in politics, either. It has been my observation that it is true in all areas of life - religion, education, the business world, in all kinds of organizations.

I know that at one educational institution where I used to work, those who reach positions of authority - divison deans, for example - are those who promise everyone everything and then never carry through on any of those promises. They expect the employees under them to support them one hundred percent, but will never support those employees unless they find it politically expedient to do so (and it usually isn't expedient for them, for supporting underlings has come, in the culture of that particular institution at least, to be seen as weakness). They tell people what they think they want to hear, but what they say rarely has much connection to reality.

I know that this may seem to be an excessively cynical point of view, but I have seen evidence for it much more often than not.

[I, Brian]

Indeed - I quite agree. And I've found that the more involved I get into marketing, the more cynically exploited human society seems to be.

The trouble with the ethics dimension is that the lower members in a society are not in a position to go against "ethical norms" - if they do, they invite the displeasure, even wrath, or society, and even corrective action.

But the higher classes - the leaders - as we can all observe through history, power protects - people in power can certainly ignore ethical concerns because they can set themselves above ethics, above reproach - above the law.

It's a disturbing realisation of how endemic the issue could be.

[Sacredstar]

Dear Brian

And in doing so they set themselves above GOD.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[I, Brian]

Not above God - very much beneath: by fixating entirely upon the material. In my opinion.

[Sacredstar]

Well it is bit like doctors knowing they have the power to heal or kill.

Yes I agree Brian below GOD through transgression of GOD's laws.

Sacredstar

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Well it is bit like doctors knowing they have the power to heal or kill.

Yes I agree Brian below GOD through transgression of GOD's laws.

Sacredstar

Not to single you out Sacredstar (I enjoy your posts, BTW), but your reply makes me curious how you define GOD's laws? This is something that has been occupying my mind a lot lately, especially with the various conversations going on here.

The only answer I have at this moment is Love God and Love each other. But is this really a law? What is it?

I welcome answers from anyone here!

[Sacredstar]

Dear Lunamoth

GOD's laws well there are the universal truths like love, forgiveness, compassion etc but there are also the natural laws of the universe. Sometimes called cosmic laws/spiritual law. For instance cause and effect.

The importance of the law is about balance we are in a state of grace when we are in balance, so for instance if someone is stressed at work, this is showing us that something is wrong. Also it is against spiritual law to control or dominate another being, because this is tipping the scales out of balance. Hence why we have so many problems with children and depression. It is also against the law to send healing to another person without their permission. This is like going into someone's house uninvited, but many healers get upset when I tell them this and in effect they are controlling and also abusing spiritual energy which is why we fell down the dimensions in the first place. Another example is when Isis was bringing Osirus back to life, again this is abuse of spiritual energy.

Another law is the law of justice, the sun shines on every man and so all are born equal and all that is bestowed should be shared equally, then there is balance. When a small percentage or the world population hold a majority of the finances the world is again out of balance. This is why in ancient days they lived in community.

I have been working on this for most of this year and when it is complete, I will be building a new website with the full information, so that it is accessible for everyone. www.loveunion.org.

So going back to the original question of love, when people are only being unconditional love and into spiritual self gratification, they are out of balance if they are not taking part in compassionate action to help others, we are here to serve the self and others. So for instance a family man is serving himself but also others by taking care of his family. We are on this forum because we like to be here but yet sometimes we get the opportunity to serve others by sharing, giving, supporting. It is a community.

When someone is giving and the other is only taking this is out of balance. Children are not treated as equal, some school teachers and parents treat children like possessions and inferior beings once again it is out of balance. Slavery was against cosmic law for every man is born free as GOD intended.
War is against the natural law, every time a bomb goes off it is effecting the conciousness of the planet and its inhabitants, it is also interfering into another countries karma. But yet do we go in and try to bring balance back or do we trust GOD and the law of cause and effect this is a tough one! My feeling is to do what has done previously, and withdraw support financially and let out outrage be known through communication, so that the leaders are forced to back down of their own accord. This concept is hard for people to take on, if they do not accept that we are immortal.

My view is that if the natural laws were taught in school and at home, there would not be a wish to control are dominate another in the first place.

Abogado might have some input here as I have noticed that lawyers are beginning to look into natural law.

I would be interested on other's views in respect of the natural spiritual laws of the universe.


Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[Sacredstar]

another case in point is cloning and GM foods anything that plays with nature is against the natural laws.

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

another case in point is cloning and GM foods anything that plays with nature is against the natural laws.

Who is there that isn't part of nature that could do that?

Also, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find food that wasn't GM.

[lunamoth]

Hi Sacredstar, Thank you for your well-thought reply. I'll reflect on your answers more but for now I have a couple of quick reactions.

I like a lot of what you say about harmony between natural and spiritual laws, and you say a lot of nice things about love and our potential here on earth that I agree with. I also like the idea of balance, but I also know that when we have complete balance or complete unity of anything, that thing no longer can move or grow. I guess I see things very much like a dance. God makes a move, we make a move, God makes a move, we make a move. Reminds me now of something like the coevolution of symbiots.

You also seem to have a lot of esoteric knowledge about things, for example your law about healing. I have not had such a personal revelation and so I go on praying for people to be healed without ever asking them, and I do not thing this is wrong or puts me out of balance with God or out of grace. I think it is a blessing to me that I can make these prayers. I would not consider this a law.

And about children and control, I'm sure your conclusions have come out of your experiences and what you say may well apply to many situations. But you can't treat all children equally. You can treat them all fairly, but children are each unique as is everyone, and so they have different needs and strengths. Control and domination are two different words, not interchangeable in my opinion. And while I do not try to crush or dominate or control my children, I do, it is my responsibility, to control their environment and made decisions for them and teach them. Believe me, a young child who tries very very hard to control her life and environment and parents really is quite scared of that very proposition, and is right to be so. I am talking about young children here, not youth/young adults. I have learned this the hard way. And balance is the key word in our house. You are quite right that children are not possessions and are not inferior, but they are in need of guidance, love and support.

But anyway, back to the thread, I'm inferring your opinion is that when "the elite" in power are unethical they are breaking God's law concerning balance, in this case the command to justice and compassion for all.

Now, I am not so sure that the natural (if you mean scientific) law of the universe is balance. Perhaps one of our resident experts in physics can help us out here.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

Also, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find food that wasn't GM.

Quite right Abogado. Very hard to control pollen drift, and impossible to keep track of every seed. And we know the power of just a single mustard seed.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

another case in point is cloning and GM foods anything that plays with nature is against the natural laws.

Hmmm, well, I do not think these things in themselves can be classified as good or bad, as either in harmony or not with natural laws. They are technologies and technology is not inherently bad or unnatural. However, I absolutely agree that how these technologies are applied can be ethical or not. Cloning especially is a misused word. Whenever you root a plant cutting for your garden you are cloning. Our exponentially growing knowledge in biology and medicine is a direct result of gene cloning technologies. I think you are referring to the cloning of animals and humans, which indeed requires of lot of carfeul consideration and consultation. As for genetic modification, humanity has been doing that since she first saved the biggest head of grain for planting the next year. But, where are you drawing your line. I don't ask this in defiance or disrespect--but that is the starting point for consultation.

[lunamoth]

Wow, I'll post my apology to Sacredstar right away. Re-reading the tone of my posts I discover that for some reason I have a quite a chip on my shoulder today! Hit a couple of nerves. Still have a lot of dying to do, I guess.

Anyway, I apologize Sacredstar. I'll let the posts stand, warts and all.

[Sacredstar]

Dear Lunamoth

Trust me you are a gentle soul compared with some I have encountered, so no apologies necessary. I will do my best to respond to you.

'I also know that when we have complete balance or complete unity of anything, that thing no longer can move or grow.'


Well firstly how do you know? My experience is that when we are in balance we are in the state of grace with GOD and we grow in oneness and communion with the source, and we cannot ask for better then that! So instead of learning lessons from mistakes made, life is pure harmony, swimmng with the tide of the synchronicity of the cosmos instead of against it!

"I guess I see things very much like a dance."

Well in arguments I often say there is no argument if you do not choose to dance the tango! But yes I agree with you life is a co-creation.

God makes a move.

What if GOD is just the energy centre of the universe and we are revolving around it? All paths lead to the centre of all that IS!

"For example your law about healing. I have not had such a personal revelation and so I go on praying for people to be healed without ever asking them, and I do not thing this is wrong or puts me out of balance with God or out of grace. I think it is a blessing to me that I can make these prayers. I would not consider this a law."

Yes this is true but as I understand it sending healing energy is a different vibration to prayer. When you pray you are asking for divine help and then the divine decide what to do about it, when sending healing this is directing energy into a domain that has not requested it, it is a much more direct relationship with the receiver.

"But you can't treat all children equally."

Why not ? They are sacred divine beings, old souls in little bodies why should they be treated any different to you? Respect is a state of being but to honor aniother is to pay homage to other's sacred divinity.

I will give you an example, a mother asked for my advice she was told by her parents that she was too heavy on the discipline. I asked her what had she done? She responded that the child would not eat his dinner, so she sent him to the time out chair in the corner of the room.

I responded do you send your husband there if he doesn't eat his dinner? Do you send your friends there? This mother had humilated this baby of 3 years old and this can have a huge effect on self esteem and self confidence as he grows older. I am appalled at the way parents dishoinour these sacred divine beings.

"You can treat them all fairly, but children are each unique as is everyone, and so they have different needs and strengths."

I agree but that does not change how we honour them.

"Control and domination are two different words, not interchangeable in my opinion."

Control is domination in my experience especially where children are concerned.

"And while I do not try to crush or dominate or control my children, I do, it is my responsibility, to control their environment and made decisions for them and teach them."

Why?

They are born with the same wisdom as you, yes they learn from observation, yes they can be shown discipline and boundaries but with the utmost respect and honour for their feelings. The most empowering thing for a child, is for the parent to drop the big brave daddy and be real and equal, you can let them know when you are upset, we can let them know we have a problem and let them come up with a solution and they usually do , and it is usually perfect! Oh you have got me on my soapbox now! Big smiles! From the age of five I never made a single decision without my son involved in the decision making process whether that was buying a house, a holiday, shopping etc.

"Believe me, a young child who tries very very hard to control her life and environment and parents really is quite scared of that very proposition, and is right to be so."

And who did she learn that from by observing you.......I recommend that you read a book by John Bradshaw called 'The Homecoming'

"But anyway, back to the thread, I'm inferring your opinion is that when "the elite" in power are unethical they are breaking God's law concerning balance, in this case the command to justice and compassion for all."

YES

"Now, I am not so sure that the natural (if you mean scientific) law of the universe is balance."

It is threefold and the centre is the Grace of GOD

Big hugs

Sacedstar