Is Free Speech in Europe confused?

[bob x]

So males are not allowed to be policemen anymore???

[madeinrussia89]

Why shouldn't women have the preference to be searched, carded, or photographed by other women only?

[bob x]

You are asking for special treatment that you are not entitled to. Most traffic patrol is by men: of course there are some women out there, but they are a minority. If you cannot abide being pulled over by a man, then be like the Saudi women and just stay off the road.

[Muslimwoman]

This may help the discussion, inshallah:

Obviously if a woman was going to be searched she should be allowed to insist on a female, be that a police officer or doctor.

Question: As-Salamu `alaykum. I was watching a TV program that broadcasts some court cases. When I tuned to this channel, it was about a Muslim woman who is suing the State of Florida's Vehicle and License Department because it asked her to remove her face veil (niqab) so that an ID photo can be taken. One of the Muslim leaders in that state was on the cross-examination and argued that the woman can remove her niqab only in case of death!

What would you say to Muslim women who live in the West generally and in the US particularly about the issue of niqab? Is it so difficult to remove the niqab that she must file a case against the State, which doesn't even require her to uncover her hair, as some states do require for the drivers' license?

Answer: Dear brother, we commend your eagerness to become well acquainted with the teachings of Islam, which is the way Allah has chosen for the welfare of His servants.

As for your question, bear in mind that the majority of Imams — including those of the four schools of fiqh as well as others — hold the opinion that a woman is not obliged to cover her face and hands. However, a group of scholars, the majority of whom belong to the Hanbali School, teach that a woman must cover her face and hands as well.

It goes without saying that Muslims precede others in keeping the public interest and security of the nation. Therefore, if the law governing a given country requires uncovering the face of the woman for genuine reasons, such as identification, the Muslim woman, like all other women, abides by the law.

In response to your question, the prominent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Muhammad Iqbal Nadvi, Imam of Calgary Mosque, Alberta, Canada, and Former Professor at King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, states:

“The issue of niqab (covering the whole body including the face and hands) is a basic condition of hijab (Muslim woman’s dress) in one school of fiqh, while it is recommended part of hijab in other schools. But what is agreed upon in all schools is to remove the niqab[i.e., to uncover the face]) for some genuine reasons such as identification or medical purpose.

The case you mentioned may be a reason to remove the niqab if the police officer is in need to do so, and there is a legal requirement by the law to show the face, regardless of the faith and this applies to all faiths.

However, this should not be a way of discrimination against a veiled woman just to tease her. Therefore, the sister has to insist on her right to use niqab and fight for this right IF she is targeted for discrimination and the law does not require showing the face.”

Dr. Rif`at Fawzi, professor of Shari`ah at Cairo University, adds:
“It is permissible, as far as Shari`ah is concerned, to remove the niqab (face cover) for some genuine reasons such as identification or to get a photo for ID or driving license.
Therefore, if a Muslim woman is asked to remove the face cover to get a photo for such genuine reasons, then she is permitted to do so and Almighty Allah will forgive such matters. Added to that, she will keep the photo and such matters are pardoned for the facilitation of the affairs of people.”

[bob x]

A person ought to be identifiable at all times. New York City (perhaps other places, but I know of New York) has a general statute left over from the 19th century, making it a misdemeanor to appear in public with your face masked: this is, I expect, seldom or never enforced, but I heard about it when the KKK wanted to march, and as a matter of "free speech" were allowed to have their parade but not to hood their faces; I don't think you would ever get arrested for wearing a "balaclava" or "ski-mask" in the winter time, but in the summer you might be arrested for that, since only thieves and gunmen have reason to hide their faces.

[Muslimwoman]

Why should they be identifiable at all times? That is making the assumption of everyone being guilty. It suggests that if your face cannot be seen then you must be up to no good.

And when did we start deciding how people can and cannot choose to dress. I do not cover my face and have no desire to do so, however I will kick and scream for my right to do so.

[bob x]

Concealing your face is profoundly antisocial, and enables criminals to disguise themselves. You will never convince me there is anything right about it.

[Muslimwoman]

I am not trying to convince you it is right, just that it is a persons choice and our countries are based on freedom of choice are they not?

[bob x]

I mean there is nothing right about allowing the choice to go around in disguise, enabling malefactors to go around and do whatever they will untraceably.

[Muslimwoman]

LOL Bob it has nothing to do with disguise and I feel sure you are fully aware of that. Ladies that choose to cover their faces do not automatically become criminals, no matter how much you want them to.

[bob x]

I have no idea whether that really IS a lady under the bag: men have been known to conceal themselves in them, you know, where such bags are common. That's the whole point, isn't it, that nobody knows who you really are? I don't favor allowing that.
It's like: in hot weather I prefer to wear no clothes at all; however, unless I am among like-minded people, I do not have the right to do so. You have the right to wear the veil-- as long as you stay in Egypt. But I don't want it here.
And now, you may have the last word (for a while anyhow) if you wish. I am taking a break from this board.