Is it wrong?

[17th Angel]

I completley forgot for a moment there.... (I know in many cases what sex you are doesn't effect it...) But sorry I thought you were a male for a moment lol....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Yes. I was with someone for 10 years and he was obsessed with it...and not just your run of the mill stuff... it got to where the bizarre was his obsession. I think its a sickness for some I know it is for him... I feel victimized seriously for some of what I went through in that 10 years.. Sometimes I think I should go get some therapy lol. I think the worst of it is that I couldnt help but think he was comparing me to those girls and I was found wanting.. which did a huge head trip on me. I think porn is a soul sucker to be honest with you.

Actually that is pretty accurate on all accounts.

Porn is 'fools bane', fantasy that no human can possibly live up to. The problem starts with the one sided 'relationship' with a fantasy, and of course there is no imperfection from the other side, because both sides of the 'relationship' is controlled by just one person, in their mind. Then comes reality. The other person in the real part of the relationship is as human as the fantasizer, but with an unfair disadvantage. He/she can't compete with a fantasy.

The other thing is the chemical rush that people caught up in porn get. Yep that is right! Drugs produced by the porn addict's own body, keep them locked in the viscious cycle. endorphines and dopamine...and it isn't the ending they look for but rather the continuation of the anticipation (thus more endorphines and dopamine flood the brain).

How about that, Porn can be a drug addiction...

Crim Psych sends...

[Dream]

Originally Posted by Alex

Nice thoughts and scripture there too... Ain't easy being good huh?

If anyone should be able to be 'Good' it is me, but I'm not. The only thing I can do is be aware that I am a creature, stay busy doing good things, keep improving myself, focus on the positive, own up to my mistakes, etc. You know, just do the things that make sense to do. Its generally a bad idea for me to stand all by myself next to a big pile of money that isn't mine, holding a big canvas bag all the while wearing an invisibility cloak. I might start to think about stealing some of it. Actually, the idea does have some appeal.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

What is wrong according to Jesus' teachings is then allowing oneself to imagine having sex with that person- that is, committing adultery in one's heart. Jesus recognized what modern psychology also recognizes- imagination is one step away from reality. The more we imagine something as possible, the closer we are to acting on it.

I'm not sure that's the issue.

I think it might be that when we are unable to recognize the person as a soul and equate them them with their body, then we are losing touch with the Sacred. In other words, lust is an insult to the person and also to G-d's presence in our midst.

It is totally possible to enjoy a person's physical beauty as a manifestation of Divine Perfection.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I think porn is a soul sucker to be honest with you.

I think this varies with perception. ie degrees. some will read those racy scriptures and blush, not wanting to discuss what is written. Others have issues with romance novels, comparing their hubbies to the heroes looking for the gallant knight in shining armor to sweep them off their feet. Others label various degrees as you said with porn.

Talk about looking at sex/the body in inappropriate ways. (note US mentality here) there are a number of R rated movies that I would let a 8 year old see, and PG-13 movies that I would prefer my 15 year old not see, mostly because they glorify the behaviours we are discusssing.

Weird person that I am, would take them to a nude beach but not to a frat movie...

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Dream

Not for me.

We's in the same boat brah.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

I'm not sure that's the issue.

I think it might be that when we are unable to recognize the person as a soul and equate them them with their body, then we are losing touch with the Sacred. In other words, lust is an insult to the person and also to G-d's presence in our midst.

It is totally possible to enjoy a person's physical beauty as a manifestation of Divine Perfection.

Right to the heart's point...

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Thanks for the replies!

I just find my eyes wander and tend to look towards women and certain areas... And It is real hard not to, it's like an auto pilot happens without thinking... I straight away look away but it happens...

I think you'll find it's a natural biological reaction to "notice" other people, especially of the gender you are most attracted to.

I would suggest it's a natural reaction in males at least - but there's a big difference between noticing and lusting.

If a woman were to walk through out small town high street wearing nothing but flimsy underwear, I'm sure most of the men would notice and look. However, whether any would stand there actively lusting - I don't think so.

2c.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I think you'll find it's a natural biological reaction to "notice" other people, especially of the gender you are most attracted to.

I would suggest it's a natural reaction in males at least - but there's a big difference between noticing and lusting.

If a woman were to walk through out small town high street wearing nothing but flimsy underwear, I'm sure most of the men would notice and look. However, whether any would stand there actively lusting - I don't think so.

2c.

lol depending on the "actively lusting" part...they might find themselves arrested, and embarrassed...

[Dream]

Ecclesiastes 7:13-18 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked? 14 In the day of prosperity be joyful, and in the day of adversity consider; yea, God hath made the one side by side with the other, to the end that man should not find out anything that shall be after him. 15 All this have I seen in my days of vanity: there is a righteous man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his evil-doing. 16 Be not righteous overmuch; neither make thyself overwise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself? 17 Be not overmuch wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time? 18 It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from that withdraw not thy hand: for he that feareth God shall come forth from them all.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

I'm not sure that's the issue.

I think it might be that when we are unable to recognize the person as a soul and equate them them with their body, then we are losing touch with the Sacred. In other words, lust is an insult to the person and also to G-d's presence in our midst.

It is totally possible to enjoy a person's physical beauty as a manifestation of Divine Perfection.

That's an interesting point, Netti. I think you're on to something, but it does seem that lust within marriage is considered fine. I'm not sure there is much difference between the sexual attraction to your spouse (which can be a very spiritual thing, and is recognized as such in some religions, though not so much in Christianity) and lust.

I think within certain confines that protect society and individual psyche, lust is an acceptable animal drive toward procreation and pleasure. But without the limitations, it hurts individuals and society. The limitations are variously defined depending on the society, but that all societies have limitations is indicative of need.

I suppose I'm wondering what the difference between lust and sexual attraction is, if it is for your spouse. Additionally, if lust is necessarily a physical thing for most people, because for me it is very much a response to my perceived sense of another person's energy... a sense of their spirit. This is how my husband and I know we'll find each other "physically" attractive long after we're not physically attractive anymore-- the attraction is stemming from the energy, the spirit of the other person, which is something each of us sense. But to me, that's a distinctive attraction from love and is a distinctly sexual attraction. Furthermore, it is not an aesthetic appreciation of this other person's beauty, but rather some sort of magnetism that pulled us together originally and keeps us coming back to each other...

So I wonder if what for some is lust is for others something else? Or where we all draw the line? Is it sex with people who you shouldn't have sex with (or thoughts of this)? Is it animalistic drives of being human? Or something else- that is the problem?

If God is in all things, including sex and procreation and all that... is sexual attraction bad and/or unspiritual or is it only a problem with misuse?

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by path of one

I suppose I'm wondering what the difference between lust and sexual attraction is, if it is for your spouse. Additionally, if lust is necessarily a physical thing for most people, because for me it is very much a response to my perceived sense of another person's energy... a sense of their spirit. This is how my husband and I know we'll find each other "physically" attractive long after we're not physically attractive anymore-- the attraction is stemming from the energy, the spirit of the other person, which is something each of us sense. But to me, that's a distinctive attraction from love and is a distinctly sexual attraction. Furthermore, it is not an aesthetic appreciation of this other person's beauty, but rather some sort of magnetism that pulled us together originally and keeps us coming back to each other...

So I wonder if what for some is lust is for others something else? Or where we all draw the line? Is it sex with people who you shouldn't have sex with (or thoughts of this)? Is it animalistic drives of being human? Or something else- that is the problem?

If God is in all things, including sex and procreation and all that... is sexual attraction bad and/or unspiritual or is it only a problem with misuse?

I think there is a fine line between sexual atrraction and lust, even in a marriage relationship. If it is obvious that my wife is not in the mood, yet I continue to make advances, I'm crossing over that line. It becomes lust, because I'm thinking purely for my own satisfaction. It's then time to stop. I mean, even if she consents, it's not the same, because it's out of obligation. There's a difference between making love and having sex. Oh sure, there is that verse that says the wife's body belongs to the husband and the husband's body belongs to the wife, yada yada, but the experience will lack that element of emotional and spiritual connection that elevates the experience to a higher level where each person is there for the other, and not just for themselves. When that happens: YOWZA!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dondi

I think there is a fine line between sexual atrraction and lust, even in a marriage relationship. If it is obvious that my wife is not in the mood, yet I continue to make advances, I'm crossing over that line. It becomes lust, because I'm thinking purely for my own satisfaction. It's then time to stop. I mean, even if she consents, it's not the same, because it's out of obligation. There's a difference between making love and having sex. Oh sure, there is that verse that says the wife's body belongs to the husband and the husband's body belongs to the wife, yada yada, but the experience will lack that element of emotional and spiritual connection that elevates the experience to a higher level where each person is there for the other, and not just for themselves. When that happens: YOWZA!

Agreed. Lust is "desire" out of balance within a marriage, and inappropriate desire outside a marriage.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by Dream

Be not overmuch wicked.

So it's ok to be a little bit wicked?

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...it does seem that lust within marriage is considered fine.

That could be when people start to take each other for granted, which is not a good sign.

To my way of thinking, lust bespeaks an absence of real love - not only for the person who is the object, but also for G-d. Lust is a kind of idolatry in the form of a misplaced emphasis, a distortion of our normal capacity for healthy and uplifting physical attractions. It's basically making the quest for sexual pleasure more important than it should be... to the point where there is little or no room for spiritual emotions by which we stay in touch with our divine nature.

Lust also indicates that are spiritual heart is closed and we are unable to recognize the other as a manifestation of Divine Perfection. That's when we have reduced them to their physical self; they're just an object for our own gratification. When we fail to recognize the other as a manifestation of Divine Perfection, we've stopped relating to them as embodiments of Soul, just as we have done in relation to ourself.

In short, lust is one form of idolatry among others that causes us to forget G-d or it indicates that we have in fact forgotten G-d.

When idolatry occurs in the interpersonal realm, you can see it on a continuum. Interpersonal violence like sexual/physical abuse or psychological abuse really represent a failure to keep sight of G-d because selfishness has evolved into abusiveness. Just because a spouse puts up with conduct that is not cherishing doesn't mean it's not abusive.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

I'm not sure that's the issue.

I think it might be that when we are unable to recognize the person as a soul and equate them them with their body, then we are losing touch with the Sacred. In other words, lust is an insult to the person and also to G-d's presence in our midst.

It is totally possible to enjoy a person's physical beauty as a manifestation of Divine Perfection.

Veneration of an empty shell is idolatry. See Colossians 3:5

<edit>
Ha! we were posting about the same thing at the same time.