Is It Wrong to Drink Alcoholic Beverages?

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Xavier Breath

Bruce, I thought the Christian approach these days, as all days, should be to present the fact that Christ lived, died for our sins, rose again and lives today. To add to this that we should become emissaries of scientific facts, some of which are indeed hypotheses disguised as facts, corrupts our role. Let the scientists present their information; Then let the people decide whether they want to accept Christ's gift (which is already bought and paid for and theirs for the taking) or not.

Dear Xavier Breath,
Thank you for your interest. There is no such thing as a cookie cutter christianity with Christians all the same shape and flavor. I would have thought this obvious even from the early days of the Church- they would even come to physical blows during their "discussions".

What we strive to have is harmonious conflict.

There is a bad science but this is not discounted by good science. I believe one day that scientists one day will be able to discern the Christ as scientific fact. Christianity is entirely congruent with a real science.

Originally Posted by Xavier Breath

Those who are adamant about condemning the use of alcohol or whatever need to look carefully at their own habits, and be sure that they themselves do not own any indulgences which might fall into the same category. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...

It is important these days that folk know the reason for things rather than just "thou shalt nots".

Those who have sinned have a responsibility to warn others.

God Bless,
Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Ok. That's fair.

I'm just curious, have you taken nazirite vows?

No Patti, but thinking back I must have taken a Rechabite vow when I was a child. My Great Great Grandfather was an alcoholic and his son joined the Temperance movement. My Grandfather was a member but my Dad backslid in his later years. Some of my cousins on that side of the family are alcoholics.

Our Father God does not hold us to vows by the way- for how can we know the full picture when we take it?

One more thing, I do believe that alcohol had an important purpose in the past but since the "turning point of time" that purpose is done with.

Blessings,
Br.Bruce

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Proverbs 31:4-5
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; Nor for princes to say , Where is strong drink?Lest they drink, and forget the law, And pervert the justice due to any that is afflicted.

23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:


23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Proverbs 23:31-32
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Habakkuk 2:15
Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken.

Hosea 4:11
Prostitution, wine, and new wine take away understanding.

yes drunkeness is a no,no ,especially for those who represent the true God moderation in all things .
but talking about drunkeness, there is litral drunkeness and spiritual drunkeness, and litral fornication and spritual fornication, and it brings to mind the harlot riding the beast in the book of revelation .
this harlot represents the WORLDWIDE EMPIRE OF FALSE RELIGION.

And Gods people are told to GET OUT OF HER . REVELATION 18-4



(Isaiah 28:7) And these also—because of wine they have gone astray and because of intoxicating liquor they have wandered about. Priest and prophet—they have gone astray because of intoxicating liquor, they have become confused as a result of the wine, they have wandered about as a result of the intoxicating liquor; they have gone astray in their seeing, they have reeled as to decision.



YES, there is much wandering around and much confusion because of spiritual drunkerds, and spiritual fornicaters




“And another, a second angel, followed, saying: ‘She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink of the wine of the anger of her fornication!’” (Revelation 14:8)

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

There is no such thing as a cookie cutter christianity with Christians all the same shape and flavor.

There most certainly are too cookie-cutter christians! Why do you think we deal with all these stupid stereotypes?

I would have thought this obvious even from the early days of the Church- they would even come to physical blows during their "discussions".

This is part of the reason for cookie-cutter christians.

[Tao_Equus]

I'm right and holier than thou art!!

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Unholy dust-up at Nativity church

Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching into war... with the Cross of Jesus, slaying innocent men women and children..

God I need a drink!!

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I'm right and holier than thou art!!

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Unholy dust-up at Nativity church

Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching into war... with the Cross of Jesus, slaying innocent men women and children..

God I need a drink!!

Such love...... I hope they feel ashamed and ask their god(and those they attacked) for forgivness....

[Xavier Breath]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Ooohh. I am very sorry you see it that way. I see it as good, healthy debate. Looking at topics through others eyes ccan show how and why certain decisions are reached.

I am all for healthy debate, and I am quite focussed on looking at topics through others' eyes. Sometimes, these debates become unhealthy, falling into the category of "doubtful disputations" See Romans 14, particularly:

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more; but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Can we hear and discuss each other's views without judging?

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by mee

but talking about drunkeness, there is litral drunkeness and spiritual drunkeness, and litral fornication and spritual fornication, and it brings to mind the harlot riding the beast in the book of revelation .
this harlot represents the WORLDWIDE EMPIRE OF FALSE RELIGION.

"Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker." -Ogden Nash.

The position of the Russelites has changed somewhat over the years, Mee.

Your lot once had it that ALL religion was a racket and that preachers were crooks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses_in_the_United_S tates

During the late 1930s and '40s, the Jehovah's Witnesses attacked the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian denominations so stridently that many states passed laws against their inflammatory rhetoric. There is a report of a Jehovah's Witness caravan riding through Arkansas waving banners that read, "Religion is a Racket" and "Preachers are Crooks."[

That was more than a report- I have seen the photos- weren't they in a Watchtower magazine?

Of course they later caved in and registered as a religion. That made good sense because of the financial and other advantages.

Happy New Year,
Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I'm right and holier than thou art!!

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Unholy dust-up at Nativity church

Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching into war... with the Cross of Jesus, slaying innocent men women and children..

Nobody killed there Old Chum!
It is very efficient really. The Western Churches had their Christmas as usual on 25th December while the Armenians and Greeks celebrate 6th January as Christmas.

http://www.sain.org/Armenian.Church/xmas.txt

"Armenian Christmas," as it is popularly called, is a culmination of
celebrations of events related to Christ's Incarnation. Theophany or
Epiphany (or Astvadz-a-haytnootyoon in Armenian) means
"revelation of God," which is the central theme of the Christmas
Season in the Armenian Church. During the "Armenian Christmas"
season, the major events that are celebrated are the Nativity of
Christ in Bethlehem and His Baptism in the River Jordan. The day
of this major feast in the Armenian Church is January 6th.

Greeks also have a different Santa- St. Basil.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

God I need a drink!!

The founders of AA recognised that all folk need the spirit.

In a letter Carl Jung wrote:

His craving for alcohol was the equivalent, on a low level, of the spiritual thirst of our being for wholeness, expressed in medieval language: the union with God.*

Carl Jung on alcoholism

Carl added:

You see, "alcohol" in Latin is "spiritus" and you use the same word for the highest religious experience as well as for the most depraving poison. The helpful formula therefore is: spiritus contra spiritum.

I wish you a safe New year,
Br.Bruce

[Tao_Equus]

You too Brucey!!

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

"Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker." -Ogden Nash.

The position of the Russelites has changed somewhat over the years, Mee.

Your lot once had it that ALL religion was a racket and that preachers were crooks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses_in_the_United_S tates


That was more than a report- I have seen the photos- weren't they in a Watchtower magazine?

Of course they later caved in and registered as a religion. That made good sense because of the financial and other advantages.

Happy New Year,
Br.Bruce

and dont forget what was on the back of them ,
Serve God and Christ the King.

As they declared God’s judgment messages, they also featured the positive aspects of the Kingdom message.

things are well along now and many things have happened , and many things have been according to bible prophecy .

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

and dont forget what was on the back of them ,
Serve God and Christ the King.

As they declared God’s judgment messages, they also featured the positive aspects of the Kingdom message.

things are well along now and many things have happened , and many things have been according to bible prophecy .

The problem with the JW faith is that rather than being likened to a cry from the wilderness, it has been more like a cry of "wolf", which cannot be believed.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The problem with the JW faith is that rather than being likened to a cry from the wilderness, it has been more like a cry of "wolf", which cannot be believed.

no cry of wolf , it is all happening just as the bible fortold,
and getting out of ...babylon the great ....has been something that a great crowd have been doing , especially in the time of the end , revelation 18-4 and here they are spoken of in REVELATION 7;9-10and they are all waving their symbolic palm branches to welcome Gods new reigning king JESUS CHRIST Daniel 7;13-14 Daniel 2;44

[Joedjr]

Hi,
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son , but the Father alone."
"Take heed, keep on the alert: for you do not know when the appointed time will come."
Mark 13: 31-32

The key words for me are "no one knows". Also "take heed, keep on the alert" are good too.

If I may bring the thread back, so are the numbers out for the dui deaths for this holiday season?
Joe

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

no cry of wolf , it is all happening just as the bible fortold,
and getting out of ...babylon the great ....has been something that a great crowd have been doing , especially in the time of the end , revelation 18-4 and here they are spoken of in REVELATION 7;9-10and they are all waving their symbolic palm branches to welcome Gods new reigning king JESUS CHRIST Daniel 7;13-14 Daniel 2;44

The half dozen declarations of "the end" over the past 150 years is what I'm talking about, Mee.