Is the Book of Revelation Inspired

[InChristAlways]

Protestant founder Martin Luther considered Revelation to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it" [2].

Edit to add to post #15:

Good thing I never read any of ML writings.

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It has been accomplished! [#5055]" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. tetelestai <5055> (5769)

Revelation 1:18 and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.

[chokmah]

ICA:


Just wanted to mention to you that the Hebrew transliterated word for "New" in Jeremiah 31 is the same word that is used for "New" Moon. Thought this might help on understanding the meaning behind "new", and give insight into the response that Banana gave above about how Jews view the passage.

[InChristAlways]

Protestant founder Martin Luther considered Revelation to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it" [2].

Revelation is considered one of the most controversial and difficult books of the Bible, with many diverse interpretations of the meanings of the various names and events in the account.
In the 4th century, St. John Chrysostom and other bishops argued against including this book in the New Testament canon, chiefly because of the difficulties of interpreting it and the danger for abuse. Christians in Syria also reject it because of the Montanists' heavy reliance on it. In the 9th century, it was included with the Apocalypse of Peter among "disputed" books in the Stichometry of St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople. In the end it was included in the accepted canon, although it remains the only book of the New Testament that is not read within the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Protestant founder Martin Luther considered Revelation to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it" [2].

I have heard that there are also many that have tried to assign a date to this book/vision, anywhere to just after the Cross to late first century.

Most of the book is rooted in the symbology of the Old Testament, the temple, sanctuary, the sacrifices, the worshipers, the ark of the covenant, the candlestick, the city Jerusalem, mount Zion, the prophets, the priesthood, the king and the throne, the archangel, the serpent, trumpets, feasts, and many more. All these things begin to relate to our experience, life, and walk in God.

Is it perhaps an error to try and assign a "date" to it or any other book in the Bible but rather read the "message" that is written in it? I am just confused why there is such division on it in the different churches today, as God says those who read it are "Blessed". Does anyone else here have any personal thoughts on it of being divine or not? Thanks.
Steve

[Curios Mike]

The book of Rev also has similarities to what Jesus has said about the end times:

Revelation 6.1+2+4
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Matthew 24.4-6
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


Rev. 6.5-8
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Matthew 24.7-8
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Rev. 6.9-11
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Matthew 24.9-14 -
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Rev 6:12-17
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16. And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17. For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Matthew 24.29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

These are just the seal judgements in Revaltion. Sometimes I wounder if the seals and the trumpets and bowls were ment to happen more similtaniosly then it reads?

But I find it interesting that alot of these prophetic books or writings have a lot of simularities in them.

Here is the web site I pulled these from if you want to further research this?
The Seven Seals (http://www.exodus2006.com/JimWright/SevenSeals.htm) Not sure if my link is working. I hope its ok to put a link up dont want to run into any copyright issues.

[InChristAlways]

quote Curios Mike:The book of Rev also has similarities to what Jesus has said about the end times:.........
......These are just the seal judgements in Revaltion. Sometimes I wounder if the seals and the trumpets and bowls were ment to happen more similtaniosly then it reads?
But I find it interesting that alot of these prophetic books or writings have a lot of simularities in them. ...........

Thanks curious Mike. So you believe the book is Divine and Inspired. The events are suppose to happen "quickly" or in a short period of time.

It also follows the book of Daniel fairly accurately as "the abomination" mentioned by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse is mentioned in Daniel chapt 11. I won't quote the verses as most here are familiar with the visions that Daniel was given concerning the Time of the End.
Thanks for the post. Peace
Steve

[InChristAlways]

quote ICA:....... Then in essence the Book of Revelation is relegated to the "back burner" when discussing Christ-ianity with others?........

i dont know about that. i have seen a couple of muslims right here at CR speak about Revelations & i am usually right on the same target as they are.

maybe all 'things' new is refering to people water of life is the Spirit of God almighty dweilling in us. i dont think you are going to get real far with the NT with very many people who do not believe Jesus is the way the truth & the life...but you can try

i think IS 43 is speaking of Jesus & the Holy Ghost in our lives as well.

Have any of them ever had the view that the manchild in revelation 12 was "Mohammed"? I know there are some christians that view this as Constantine and some as Jesus Christ. What are others view of who/what this is representing, biblically? Thanks.
Steve

Reve 12:4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a strong male Child who was to Shepherd all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

[tommy]

Sorry for such a long post, but here's my take on Revelation:

Here are a few dangers of following religion first rather then God in my opinion. We don’t always know what a doctrine or a council could put in place and that is why I think trust in the Bible and not a specific religion is important. Here is where I think the human race went wrong and why we are now standing on the crest of the great tribulation. God wanted one thing from us, since he created us, our sincere love and devotion and devotion is the key word here. However, we have a supreme leader, God To find the key to Revelations we must realize that much of it is symbolism as it tells us that in the first chapter. Revelation 18:2-3, unfortunately refers to the mass of false religion that will fall prior to the end of the system of things including the group who committed fornication in the last days and the scandal which has cost a billion dollars in defending itself. Revelations is a hard Book of the Bible and we need to learn in my opinion what is the 10 horns and what they represent. We also need to learn what is meant by the beast, the wild beast and Babylon the Great. Jeremiah Chapter 51:49 in the OT refers to Babylon as the ones responsible for the Israelites being “slaughtered” which could be symbolic what group (this might not mean all the individual members) will fall under Babylon the Great since the Bible uses symbolism and the OT and NT ties together.







I learned that many Catholics are loaded with Bible knowledge, so how could all these members be all wrong? I don’t think that Babylon the Great is just 100% Catholic Religion, but the whole mass of false religion that has been led astray by political and church leaders, nations and anything else that is not 100% complete devotion to God through Jesus as opposed to man. I went on the search engine and typed in holocaust, Catholic religion and WWII because it has often been said that the Catholic Religion is the whore of Babylon the Great and a book came up below you can read, its free. Then I learned this, During WWII, pope Pius VII, remained silent during the killing of the Jews and God has instructed through Moses that “Thou shall not kill”. It was the ordinary Catholics that helped hide the Jews out of compassion for their fellow man and the pope, a human leader, turned his back to the biggest crime ever committed. However, millions were killed and only thousands were saved. Rev 17:3-7 discusses the Beast (false religion) in Scarlet Red which could represent in my personal opinion, the blood of the millions killed when “nation went against nation” in WWII by those who were responsible and/or supported it. In Fascist Italy, on February 11, 1929, the Lateran Treaty was signed by Mussolini making Vatican City a sovereign state. Pope Pius XI claimed that he had “given Italy back to God, and God back to Italy”. Then six years later in October of 1935 Italy invades Abyssinia, claiming that is was “a barbarous land which still practices slavery” which was not condemned by the Vatican.


On Showtime we saw “our Fathers” and about Cardinal Bernard Law ending up getting a promotion after all of the cover up in the priest sex scandal. This also has happened at other religions like the Protestants. The Smith’s Bible Dictionary published in the early 1900’s says “Babylon (or Rome) in another form, the Papal despotism, a compound of Paganism and Christianity”. OK, then what defines paganism? Who is St. Patrick and St. Valentine and why don’t we read their names in the Bible? Is prayer directed to Saints paganism and do they get heard since it is not directed through Jesus to the Almighty One? As always, I do not know the answers, but am putting these issues up to share my thoughts in what I read in the Bible for purposes of debate and please be discerning about some of these sensitive topics that could be off and in some regards should be off, as like most of you I am a Bible student, that’s all. What are the ten horns referring to in Revelations? “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where woman sits on top. And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while”. Revelations 17:9,10. Both terms are used scripturally to refer to governmental powers (Jeremiah 51: 24, 25: Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45).Six world powers are mentioned as having an impact on the affairs of God’s people: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon,, Medo-Persia, Greece. Of these, five had already come and gone by the time John received Revelation, whereas Rome was still very much a world power. This corresponds well with “five have fallen, one is”. But what of the “other” that was due to come? By the 19th century the Anglo-American world power was added. An angel explained to John, And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eight king, but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction Rev 17:11. How do we know that beasts are governments? Certain world powers of history appear directly in the Bible record as nations. Egypt, the serpent and also the bull, as well as Assyria usingthe bull. Medo-Persia used the Eagle. Athens used the Owl. Rome, the Eagle. In addition, Great Britain is designated by the Lion. The U.S., the Eagle. From the most remote times China has symbolized by the dragon and Russia the Bear.





The symbolic scarlet-colored wild beast “springs from” the seven heads; that is, it is born from, or owes its existence to, those heads of the original “wild beast”…out of the sea”, of which the scarlet-colored wild beast is an image. What does this all mean? Well the Anglo-American power was the ascended head. The previous six heads had fallen and the position of the dominant world power had passed to this dual head and was now centered in it. This seventh head,as the current representative of the line of world powers, was the moving force in establishing the League of Nations and is still the major promoter and financial support of the UNITED NATIONS. Therefore, in symbol, the scarlet color wild beast, the eighth king “springs” from the original seven heads. Looked at like this, the statement that is sprang from the seven harmonizes well with the earlier revelation that the wild beast with two horns like a lamb (the Anglo-American World Power, the seventh head of that original wild beast) urged the making of the image and gave it life Rev. 13:1, 11, 14, 15. Therefore, the United Nations is also itself designed to look like a world government. At times it has acted like one sending people to war. As John soon learns, the time will come when the UN will act with considerable authority and call a war that “goes off into destruction”.



Is this God’s war at Armageddon and that Babylon the Great will only be remembered at that time rev. 16:1, 14, 19. “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. These will battle with the Lamp, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of Kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so”. Rev. 17:12-14. The ten horns are all political powers that presently hold sway on the world scene and that support the image of the wild beast (United Nations). The irony here is that it was the League of Nations and the United Nations organization that was supposed to preserve world peace. God has purposed that His Kingdom under Jesus Christ will shortly replace all these kingdoms Daniel 7:13, 14, Matthew 24:30 25: 31-33, 46. Of course there is nothing the rulers of this world can do against Jesus Christ himself. He is in heaven. However, soon the time sill come for God’s Kingdom to “crush and put an end to all these kingdoms Daniel 2:44. Now we know the nations will not succeed against Jesus. Certainly the immense material wealth of Babylon the Great will not save her. The vision shows that when the wild beast (nation) and the ten horns vent their hatred on her they will strip off her royal robes and all her jewelry. They will plunder her wealth, make her naked, shamefully expose her real character. The one billion in priest molestation suits by all religions, not just the big one, could be some of these first pangs. The UN will give sanction to the destruction of false religion.



So in the end, the wide spread doubt may empty the church's of mass false religion leaving the religions dead and perhaps not the members who then follow true Christianity (The Revelation), Jesus’ teachings and they don’t follow doctrines, praise church leaders, and give up the belief that when you are dying in war you are dying for God. Not true, in war we die for a nation and not God. Yes, the nations will use the scarlet-colored wild beast, the United Nations, in destroying Babylon the Great. Thus, the ancient harlot will come to her complete end. “and the women whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth” Rev. 17:18. This is the mystery of the great harlot and the scarlet colored beast. Peace, tommy

[Ruhan]

The book of Revelation was excluded from the earliest NT canons. Many of the church fathers believed it to be an early 2nd century apocalyptic work which was not inspired. Even Eusebius doubted it's authenticity and it was not until the end of the 4th century that it was becoming widely accepted.

[tommy]

Originally Posted by Ruhan

The book of Revelation was excluded from the earliest NT canons. Many of the church fathers believed it to be an early 2nd century apocalyptic work which was not inspired. Even Eusebius doubted it's authenticity and it was not until the end of the 4th century that it was becoming widely accepted.

Hey Ruhan:

Welcome to CR with your first post. Revelation is the exciting climax to the Bible. There are so many ties to the Old Testimate that it is the fitting conclusion to the Bible.

It so exciting that it was written by Jesus' closest companion John in around 95 AC, who John trusted to take care of his mother when he was dying. I really don't see anyway that it could not be inspired scripture. It is an exciting finish to the Bible that has had great meaning to me to get out of Babylon the Great Rev. 18:4 that really changed the direction of my spiritual well being. Would it seem appropriate with the Bible to conclude with the short Chapter in James.

Revelation delivers a strong message to get out of mans teachings, customs and traditions. It was written by John man, who else would qualify to pen the last chapter of the Bible. Some religions (and some Church fathers) might not like the message to get out, but it is my favorite Chapter in the Bible and I value how it has given me direction and value the message from the Father in Heaven.

We also hear Jesus speaking through an Angel to John. What a chilling end to God's inspired words. Oh well, I am at a Starbucks in a Casino in the middle of the Nevada desert and wanted to check this thread. Peace, tommy

[mee]

in revelation 18;4 it tells Gods people to get out of Babylon the great (the world empire of false religion) Happy is the man who reads, and happy those who listen to the words of this prophecy and heed what is written in it. For the hour of fulfillment is near."—Revelation 1:1-3, New English Bible (1970)