Is the cry "Anti-semetic" overused?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Do I understand the situation correctly?

Well you understand it the same way I do. Britain admitted that it had no intention of including the people of Palestine in the discussions on creating an Israeli state.

If we just look down the history page of colonialism we can see the damage it has done in the world and as you say, it still goes on today. It has become like the religons have, either you are in our gang or you are evil and must be taken over.

America have now taken over and seem to think they are the 'democratic' example for the world. If their Democratic process is so good it does beg the question as to why they have a president they didn't actually elect?

Hands up who doesn't think we are heading for WWIII, led by Bush and his 'messages from G-d'?

{MW shakes her head in total exasperation}

Salaam

[flowperson]

Hey..."hands up" is what bandits say when you're getting robbed. I think they invented the phrase in Texas.

Come to think of it, yeah...my hands are up.
Ummmm...let's see, am I getting robbed or is WWIII beginning?
Things are so confusing here in the "OF" corral.

Just like the really olden times with the Tower of Babel and all that stuff, huh ?

flow....

[Tao_Equus]

MW,

End of Days? No I do not think that. In truth the US is becoming increasingly incapable of mounting large scale war without resorting to its nuclear arsenal. The powerful are a greedy selfish power-hungry people....not suicidal. The combined might of the two nations that consistently question the falsehood of America being the only superpower is one that would cripple America's ability to fight in any theatre. The signs are that they are ready to start working together to really limit US dominance. Does America want to take on a Russian/Chinese coalition? I think not.
Exactly where we are headed is something I am at a loss to predict. The balances are changing and who knows what might happen tomorrow to change the course of events dramaticly. I think End of Days talk is propaganda used by the manipulators of the easily manipulated, nothing more. I have more worry over a radical band of crazies developing or getting their hands on some biological agent than I do from any of the Nation states.
But who knows ... history teaches us to expect surprises.

Tao

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

America have now taken over and seem to think they are the 'democratic' example for the world.

There is a classic.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

If their Democratic process is so good it does beg the question as to why they have a president they didn't actually elect?

Here you denounce a method of election to embrace the method of 'simple majority'. A 'simple majority' is one of many methods for making a decision and it should be denounced... not embraced. A 'simple majority' has serious flaws.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Hands up who doesn't think we are heading for WWIII, led by Bush and his 'messages from G-d'?

My hands are up... I know that I am not heading for WWIII, whether Bush leads for it or not. Are you?

[Muslimwoman]

Oh heavens Tao I wasn't suggesting the end of days is coming, just another war in the Middle East and as you point out Russia and China are flexing their muscles a little now so I doubt they would just sit back and watch.

I just happen to think that the US are going to push things too far in the Mid East one day soon and will start a chain reaction. They do not have the manpower to fight a major large scale war and while the UK will follow the US up the wazoo I do not feel that the rest of Europe is quite so stupid. Putin is building stronger links with Europe and we know he will not support an aggresive attack on the ME. I just see a domino effect happening, as happened with WWII.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Here you denounce a method of election to embrace the method of 'simple majority'. A 'simple majority' is one of many methods for making a decision and it should be denounced... not embraced. A 'simple majority' has serious flaws.

You are aware that 'majority rule' is a major principle of democracy aren't you? Representative democracy requires a majority vote.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Oh heavens Tao I wasn't suggesting the end of days is coming, just another war in the Middle East and as you point out Russia and China are flexing their muscles a little now so I doubt they would just sit back and watch.

I just happen to think that the US are going to push things too far in the Mid East one day soon and will start a chain reaction. They do not have the manpower to fight a major large scale war and while the UK will follow the US up the wazoo I do not feel that the rest of Europe is quite so stupid. Putin is building stronger links with Europe and we know he will not support an aggresive attack on the ME. I just see a domino effect happening, as happened with WWII.

How is it that a person who claims to believe in God models the world as if there were only one soul causing it? Well... just how many souls cause a 'domino effect'?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

You are aware that 'majority rule' is a major principle of democracy aren't you? Representative democracy requires a majority vote.

I am aware that the propaganda you succumb to has told you that 'majority rule' is a major principle of democracy. I am aware that representative democracy does NOT require a majority vote. I am also aware that the Qur'an calls for agreement between people and yet calls against having a Lord, whether elected or not, between a person and God. Since in the ME the dominos follow and thus empower their Lords, I question who you are to be teaching me the democracy from your propaganda. Well?

[I, Brian]

Here's a piece on the BBC I thought was very relevant to this discussion, about individuals in Israel and Palestine who have set up peace groups, and continued them, even when some of their children were killed:
BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | Middle East families united by grief

[bob x]

it's not like they can try diplomacy with Israel. We all know how that ends.

No. We don't know what it would be like if the Palestinians tried diplomacy to
the exclusion of random murder.

The Chechens really haven't stopped, they just haven't done anything big since Beslan

What has it gotten them? No-one in Russia, and not many anywhere, are ever going to consider an independent Chechnya as remotely desirable, as long as anybody who remembers Beslan remains alive. If the Chechens started firing a bunch of rockets at Russian towns every chance they got, they could keep pushing the time when anybody would care about Chechen grievances off into the future, indefinitely-- this is what the Palestinians keep doing.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I am aware that the propaganda you succumb to has told you that 'majority rule' is a major principle of democracy. I am aware that representative democracy does NOT require a majority vote. I am also aware that the Qur'an calls for agreement between people and yet calls against having a Lord, whether elected or not, between a person and God. Since in the ME the dominos follow and thus empower their Lords, I question who you are to be teaching me the democracy from your propaganda. Well?

Lol...and what do you suggest Cyberpi ?.. the only suggestion you have ever made that I can remember is drowning the poor.

Tao

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I have more worry over a radical band of crazies developing or getting their hands on some biological agent than I do from any of the Nation states.

Hey now, don't abuse the word radical!

"The role of the radical throughout the ages has been as an antidote to privelege."

--Sidney Lens, Radicalism in America

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Hey now, don't abuse the word radical!

"The role of the radical throughout the ages has been as an antidote to privelege."

--Sidney Lens, Radicalism in America

In my experience paradoxical as it may seem radicals tend to be the rebellious children of the privileged!! But given the current situation we need all the radicals we can get ... especially if they have no delusions of having the X factor, gifts of prophesy or the likes. Just as one might take us to our doom....one might just show us peace is beautiful. Ahhhhhhh..... I can dream.

Sounds like Sidney is worth a read. You know irony surfaces again tho....in all the wars America has waged since WW2 they have yet to walk away as undisputed victors. Ego and Hollywood may paint another picture...but the fact remains...the US army are professional losers. Big Big Budgets...Big BIG EGO....but always end with tails between their legs.

Wity aside witheld for fear of offence.

Tao

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

How is it that a person who claims to believe in God models the world as if there were only one soul causing it? Well... just how many souls cause a 'domino effect'?

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Where have I suggested that the US is a single soul? Where have I suggested that my government will not back the US in this crazy political stance they are taking?

We are talking about politics, about a war caused by politics (ie mankind), so where do you think my faith in G-d fits into that discussion?

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I am aware that the propaganda you succumb to has told you that 'majority rule' is a major principle of democracy. I am aware that representative democracy does NOT require a majority vote.

This is from Principles of Democracy (a US government site) forgive me if I take their word over yours. Please note that according to your government the second principle of democracy is majority rule.

On the surface, the principles of majority rule and the protection of individual and minority rights would seem contradictory. In fact, however, these principles are twin pillars holding up the very foundation of what we mean by democratic government.

Britain, my home country, is a representative democracy. We elect our leaders via the one person, one vote system and the majority rules. These representatives then make political decisions on our behalf but without the majority vote they cannot become representatives.

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I question who you are to be teaching me the democracy from your propaganda. Well?

It does not matter how many times I tell you this you just refuse to listen so I shall try shouting in case you are hard of hearing......I AM BRITISH, I AM CURRENTLY IN THE UK, MY GOVERNMENT IS AN ELECTED DEMOCRACY, MY PROPAGANDA COMES FROM THE UK & US GOVERNMENTS.

Get it now? So trying to talk down to me as though I am some uneducated desert Arab that has no opinion beyond what my Imams tell me is about as effective as peeing in the wind.

I was talking about western political policies so where does the Quran come into the discussion?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Here's a piece on the BBC I thought was very relevant to this discussion, about individuals in Israel and Palestine who have set up peace groups, and continued them, even when some of their children were killed:
BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | Middle East families united by grief

Thank you Brian, that is what we need to see more of.

Salaam