Is the cry "Anti-semetic" overused?

[dauer]

Enlightenment,

If you're going to criticize Israel you might want to try a more mainstream liberal Jewish mag like tikkun for ideas against the current gov't and its strategies: Tikkun — A Jewish Magazine, an Interfaith Movement

instead of a group of extremists whose opinion is rejected by the majority of the Jewish community including other black hats (and black hats in no way shape or form are representatives of Judaism, normative Judaism, or even Jewish tradition going back through the ages. They're a modern backwards-turning in response to the enlightenment and other factors.)

Dauer

You might start finding fuel for your tirade of C&P rhetoric here:

Tikkun Current Thinking - Understanding What Just Happened in Gaza

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by dauer

Enlightenment,

If you're going to criticize Israel you might want to try a more mainstream liberal Jewish mag like tikkun for ideas against the current gov't and its strategies: Tikkun — A Jewish Magazine, an Interfaith Movement

instead of a group of extremists whose opinion is rejected by the majority of the Jewish community including other black hats (and black hats in no way shape or form are representatives of Judaism, normative Judaism, or even Jewish tradition going back through the ages. They're a modern backwards-turning in response to the enlightenment and other factors.)

Dauer

You might start finding fuel for your tirade of C&P rhetoric here:

Tikkun Current Thinking - Understanding What Just Happened in Gaza

So aggressive!

1) It is hardly a tirade, boy, you lot are such drama queens


2) Are you a supporter of Israel?

[dauer]

Enlightenment,

I am uncertain if you chose your monicker to be funny or if you're currently struggling in what Sri Aurobindo called the Intermediate Zone in which case you have my deepest simpathy. All I've seen so far from you in this thread is c&p propaganda and and ad hominem attacks.

In response to 1. Please don't talk down to me. If you have an interest in dialogue then the proper approach isn't to c&p every piece of anti-israel material you can find. If you're interested in dialogue you'll have to tone down the propagandic rhetoric and engage with your fellow human beings who exist behind these posts. If you really want peace the best place to start is by manifesting it in your life and interactions with others, not engaging in sarcasm.

In response to 2. I support the Israeli people and the Palestinian people. I don't support either gov't or the extremists on either side.

Dauer

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by dauer

Enlightenment,

I am uncertain if you chose your monicker to be funny or if you're currently struggling in what Sri Aurobindo called the Intermediate Zone in which case you have my deepest simpathy. All I've seen so far from you in this thread is c&p propaganda and and ad hominem attacks.

In response to 1. Please don't talk down to me. If you have an interest in dialogue then the proper approach isn't to c&p every piece of anti-israel material you can find. If you're interested in dialogue you'll have to tone down the propagandic rhetoric and engage with your fellow human beings who exist behind these posts. If you really want peace the best place to start is by manifesting it in your life and interactions with others, not engaging in sarcasm.

In response to 2. I support the Israeli people and the Palestinian people. I don't support either gov't or the extremists on either side.

Dauer

I do not support Israel, or anyone that supports this Zion Nazi state, and those are my words, my view, no cut and paste there.

Is that okay?

Shall I show you the horrors of the IDF?

The Jewish Defence League?

Or am I not allowed to do that?

[dauer]

Those may very well be your own words, but looking back on this thread you've spammed it with posts, sometimes more than one in a row, with nothing but links. I'm not speaking as a moderator. I'm speaking as someone interested in meaningful dialogue. If you are also interested in meaningful dialogue, which means at the very least listening to the other side to hear what they say instead of to rebutt with the same material in a different package, please engage in it. If not I'll leave you to what you were doing.

Dauer

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by dauer

Those may very well be your own words, but looking back on this thread you've spammed it with posts, sometimes more than one in a row, with nothing but links. I'm not speaking as a moderator. I'm speaking as someone interested in meaningful dialogue. If you are also interested in meaningful dialogue, which means at the very least listening to the other side to hear what they say instead of to rebutt with the same material in a different package, please engage in it. If not I'll leave you to what you were doing.

Dauer

1) What are wrong with links? I do not always agree with the whole content, but perhaps some. My point is, is there anything wrong with links?


2) You also gave links


Okay, let me hear what good Israel are doing then?

Let me hear this other side..?

I'm listening...

[dauer]

1. If the links are in place of actual personal opinion then yes, I do think it interrupts the flow and I rarely bother with links posted into a thread without a personal critique or opinion about them unless they're in answer to a specific query I gave. The same is true for posters who will give multiple links that all say generally the same thing to back up their opinion with little comment on the actual link. Here too if it's a query I feel differently. There's no need to shout to be heard.

2. I did give a link, and it was only a small portion of what I had to say that was for further reading.

As I said I don't support the current Israeli government any more than I support the current Palestinian government or the current American government and I'm not about to defend the destructive actions of any of them. I did in fact supply a link to a much more mainstream Jewish website (helping your argument) that is critical of both the Palestinians, the Israelis, and the global community which imo is far more balanced than a focused attack on one community. The conservatives tend to focus on what's wrong in the Arab world and the liberals with what's wrong in Israel. Both sides tend to engage in propaganda instead of examining the reality of the situation: both sides have committed terrible inhumane acts and by focusing on only one side of the war we create a scapegoat be it of Palestine or of Israel -- often this scapegoating includes the members of each nation's population that don't support the violence in a great generalization of the "typical Israeli" or "typical Palestinian." There's a wonderful video from youtube I shared a while back of an interfaith gathering in Jerusalem with Jews, Muslims and Christians that included a lot of singing and a hebrew/arabic zikr and more recently I came across another video from an interfaith gathering where 'eden mi qedem ('Aden Min Qadeem) had performed. Unfortunately these are the types of things that the media plays down. War gets viewers. A group of hippies singing kumbaya and talking about ending conflict peaceably isn't going to bring ratings up much. It's good though that folks like R. Michael Lerner still manage to get spots on some of the mainstream news networks, generally presented in debate unfortunately and played off of one or more stereotypical angles.

Dauer

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by dauer

1. If the links are in place of actual personal opinion then yes, I do think it interrupts the flow and I rarely bother with links posted into a thread without a personal critique or opinion about them unless they're in answer to a specific query I gave. The same is true for posters who will give multiple links that all say generally the same thing to back up their opinion with little comment on the actual link. Here too if it's a query I feel differently. There's no need to shout to be heard.

2. I did give a link, and it was only a small portion of what I had to say that was for further reading.

As I said I don't support the current Israeli government any more than I support the current Palestinian government or the current American government and I'm not about to defend the destructive actions of any of them. I did in fact supply a link to a much more mainstream Jewish website (helping your argument) that is critical of both the Palestinians, the Israelis, and the global community which imo is far more balanced than a focused attack on one community. The conservatives tend to focus on what's wrong in the Arab world and the liberals with what's wrong in Israel. Both sides tend to engage in propaganda instead of examining the reality of the situation: both sides have committed terrible inhumane acts and by focusing on only one side of the war we create a scapegoat be it of Palestine or of Israel -- often this scapegoating includes the members of each nation's population that don't support the violence in a great generalization of the "typical Israeli" or "typical Palestinian." There's a wonderful video from youtube I shared a while back of an interfaith gathering in Jerusalem with Jews, Muslims and Christians that included a lot of singing and a hebrew/arabic zikr and more recently I came across another video from an interfaith gathering where 'eden mi qedem ('Aden Min Qadeem) had performed. Unfortunately these are the types of things that the media plays down. War gets viewers. A group of hippies singing kumbaya and talking about ending conflict peaceably isn't going to bring ratings up much. It's good though that folks like R. Michael Lerner still manage to get spots on some of the mainstream news networks, generally presented in debate unfortunately and played off of one or more stereotypical angles.

Dauer

Well, in truth, I do not see the confict ending any time soon.

As far as I am aware, the state of Israel was created in 1947(?), perhaps you can tell me, what was there before it was created?

Perhaps it would be a start if Israel stopped stealing more and more land, and gave back land that they have taken?

To be totally honest, I think this is all going to be moot in under 50 yrs, as I feel that man will self destroy.

JMHO.

[enlightenment]

Norman Finkelstein, Benjamin Freedman, David Cole, Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky..

Are any of these names familiar to anyone?

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by enlightenment

Norman Finkelstein, Benjamin Freedman, David Cole, Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky..

Are any of these names familiar to anyone?

All Jews hassled for in some way for speaking out against hardline Zionists? Just a guess as this is what happened to the first on list, Finkelstein, denied a tenure at a university if I remember right. Was in news other day there.

Regardless, I have to agree with Dauer that c&p and the kind of challenge above is not what draws me into a dialogue.

TE

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

All Jews hassled for in some way for speaking out against hardline Zionists? Just a guess as this is what happened to the first on list, Finkelstein, denied a tenure at a university if I remember right. Was in news other day there.

Regardless, I have to agree with Dauer that c&p and the kind of challenge above is not what draws me into a dialogue.

TE

Welll, Tao, there is a little more to it than that, if I typed it all out, it would take me some time, and I do not have the time today, then someone would say, hey, what about a link, and then we would all go around in circles, since Dauer says that he does not personally like links, therefore, I won't provide links, I won't paste any documents or words from any formal sites, he is, after all, a moderator here, so how long do you think I would last, if I were to transgress his preferences?

Like I say, it is all moot anyway.

We, and by that I mean humanity, are going to be led into self destruction, and in truth, perhaps that is for the best, especially if we can figure out a method that leaves all the other species to survive.

Have a nice weekend

[Muslimwoman]

Enlightenment

May I ask if you have very short cropped hair, wear cut off t-shirts, short combat pants and long doc martin boots? Just curious.

You actually called Dauer "boy" , I have heard some condescending rot on CR but to be honest that is the most offensive thing I have ever read here and a nasty insight into your anti-Jewish, probably white supremist, mind. This is how Hitler's insanity grew, he stopped seeing people as people and only saw them as belonging to a given group, you appear to have followed suit.

Now I know why I avoided the politics board for so long. Bye.

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Enlightenment

May I ask if you have very short cropped hair, wear cut off t-shirts, short combat pants and long doc martin boots? Just curious.

You actually called Dauer "boy" , I have heard some condescending rot on CR but to be honest that is the most offensive thing I have ever read here and a nasty insight into your anti-Jewish, probably white supremist, mind. This is how Hitler's insanity grew, he stopped seeing people as people and only saw them as belonging to a given group, you appear to have followed suit.

Now I know why I avoided the politics board for so long. Bye.

No, I didn't call him boy.

Let me try to make it straight for you.

It is like this.

Someone might say (whatever), to me, and in response, I might say, "wow, that is not what I meant, BOY, get a sense of humour". I tcan be used like, gee whizz, or gosh, to a man or a women, and has nothing to do with Hitler, or me having a shaved head, which I most certainly do not, or any other part of this little rant that you gone off on.



It is a figure of speach, used in a totally harmless manner, in the right context.

Your opening line on the other hand, was just a personal attack on me.

Doubtless you will come back with some clever comment now, rather than apologise that you were wrong.

[Muslimwoman]

I most certainly do apologise. My mind read what it was expecting to read from an anti-Jewish person and so it read "boy. you lot" (full stop rather than comman). I also assumed the "you lot" referred to Jews, which of course it may not have done.

So I really do apologise for misreading you, just goes to show how the persona we portray can lead to assumptions of our attitudes.

I also apologise to Dauer, I am sure he is big enough and ugly enough to defend himself.

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I most certainly do apologise. My mind read what it was expecting to read from an anti-Jewish person and so it read "boy. you lot" (full stop rather than comman). I also assumed the "you lot" referred to Jews, which of course it may not have done.

So I really do apologise for misreading you, just goes to show how the persona we portray can lead to assumptions of our attitudes.

I also apologise to Dauer, I am sure he is big enough and ugly enough to defend himself.

Fully accepted.

I would never refer to anyone in that way.

Not ever.