Is the cry "Anti-semetic" overused?

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by dauer

enlightenment,

I think both are true. The majority of people really want true peace, no armies, no weapons and there is also a more primal part of ourselves that is predisposed to warring and in order to bring about that time of peace we need to learn to either redirect or transcend that part of ourselves. You only have to look at the evolution of the brain to see that our minds are in constant conflict.

But another issue is that most of us haven't woken up and a lot of us would rather remain sheep than do so. Being an individual is scary. It means taking responsibility and ownership and leaving a mindless meandering through life behind. It means opening one's eyes to the dystopian present and becoming aware of how different it is from the way things ought to be and not going back to sleep in an attempt to escape reality. Ignorance is bliss. And so then the corrupt shephard tells his flock "war is peace." As long as they don't become individuals, as long as they maintain their faith in their leaders, they can free themselves of personal responsibility, of sin as it were.

Dauer

I totally agree.

100%

More than you could ever know, or I could explain, my friend.

Let me ask you this though.

It is, as you will know, possible to determine someone's mental psyche through a series of psychological tests.

Let me use a basic example, to save confusion.

Let me pluck two people from my head.

1) Dali Lama

2) Ted Bundy

Now, let us say that for a period of ten years, all nations, in all parts of the world were governed, or shaped by people with the psyche of the former.

What sort of world do you think we would have, in that decade?

Same, with number 2, if someone with the psyche of Bundy were placed to govern all nations, in all parts of all the world, what sort of world would it be in ten years?

There is a follow up to this, however, I will leave you with that, for the moment.


Steve

(Please just call me that)

[dauer]

Steve,

I think the Dalai Lama's world would be a better place, Ted Bundy's worse, unless either of them sparked a reactionary radicalism from the people of the world in which case things could spiral in the opposite direction, that is forward or backward. But if your argument presupposes that any "voice of the people" that tries to lead an uprising would also be like the current leadership then it is moot.

Dauer

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by dauer

Steve,

I think the Dalai Lama's world would be a better place, Ted Bundy's worse, Dauer

Uh huh, I agree, it was really a rhetorical question, that leads to my second part.

Imo, the majority of the people, yes that is me and you too, would want an end to war, famine, torture, and so on, and yet, for some reason, we keep on getting it.

This is because, imo, we have more leaders, democratically elected (sic), with the Bundy psyche, than the DL psyche, and always have.

Therefore, since both psyches can be measured, what would happen if all world leaders had to pass a test to ensure that their psyche leaned more toward the DL psyche, than the TB psyche?

Say we tried that for 50 years, would the world be a better place?

[dauer]

I think it would be better to publicize the full results of the tests and let the people decide.

[Muslimwoman]

What happened to the Jewish nation during the holocaust defies logic, reason or words but I do find that has carried over to a system of constant worldwide apology. I have googled numerous issues regarding the Jewish nation, both for religious and political information recently. I have used the terms Judaism, Jewish, Jews and Jew among others. Today I received this from google:

If you recently used Google to search for the word "Jew," you may have seen results that were very disturbing. We assure you that the views expressed by the sites in your results are not in any way endorsed by Google. We'd like to explain why you're seeing these results when you conduct this search.
A site's ranking in Google's search results relies heavily on computer algorithms using thousands of factors to calculate a page's relevance to a given query. Sometimes subtleties of language cause anomalies to appear that cannot be predicted. A search for "Jew" brings up one such unexpected result.
If you use Google to search for "Judaism," "Jewish" or "Jewish people," the results are informative and relevant. So why is a search for "Jew" different? One reason is that the word "Jew" is often used in an anti-Semitic context. Jewish organizations are more likely to use the word "Jewish" when talking about members of their faith. The word has become somewhat charged linguistically, as noted on websites devoted to Jewish topics such as these:

• http://shakti.trincoll.edu/~mendele/vol01/vol01.174
• http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/jonah081500.asp

Someone searching for information on Jewish people would be more likely to enter terms like "Judaism," "Jewish people," or "Jews" than the single word "Jew." In fact, prior to this incident, the word "Jew" only appeared about once in every 10 million search queries. Now it's likely that the great majority of searches on Google for "Jew" are by people who have heard about this issue and want to see the results for themselves.
The beliefs and preferences of those who work at Google, as well as the opinions of the general public, do not determine or impact our search results. Individual citizens and public interest groups do periodically urge us to remove particular links or otherwise adjust search results. Although Google reserves the right to address such requests individually, Google views the comprehensiveness of our search results as an extremely important priority. Accordingly, we do not remove a page from our search results simply because its content is unpopular or because we receive complaints concerning it. We will, however, remove pages from our results if we believe the page (or its site) violates our Webmaster Guidelines, if we believe we are required to do so by law, or at the request of the webmaster who is responsible for the page.
We apologize for the upsetting nature of the experience you had using Google and appreciate your taking the time to inform us about it.
Sincerely,
The Google Team
p.s. You may be interested in some additional information the Anti-Defamation League has posted about this issue at http://www.adl.org/rumors/google_search_rumors.asp. In addition, we call your attention to Google's search results on this topic.

I was astonished and saddened to receive it, not because it talks about Jewish people but because I have never received such a message concerning any other group of people and believe me I searched for some really awful material (awful for the reader I mean). I have been aware for some time that if big brother really is watching us then my google searches will have me on just about every list from animal rights activists to terrorists.

My question is why should I receive an apology for the upsetting nature of anti-semitism (which is of course upsetting) but not receive an apology for the upsetting nature of other forms of racism?

My fear is that this sort of conduct simply plays into the hands of anti-semites, who can point to such thngs and say 'see the Jews receive special treatment' or 'Jews control google as well as the universe'.

Salaam
MW

[flowperson]

Hi MW...Salaam

Yes this sort of conduct does play into the hands and minds of rampant anti-semites, but that's the entire point don't you see ? The formula, at least over here in the media is, first make money, and then use that money to develop the power to foist your agenda upon the minds and hearts of the unsuspecting public. And thusly are the cancerous growths of hatred foisted upon us all.

In your situation Google was simply protecting itself from a public misapprehension of their intent in the notice sent to you. It is probably mandated by Google's legal staff routinely. In Turkey these days, you might also receive such a notice if you Googled the word "Armenian", or in China "Falun Gong".

Here is an excellent article upon this very phenomenon that is once again erupting over here as we write and breathe. All that this media news flap is really about is that a hateful media puppet is trying to sell "her public" another of her moronic books. I usually pass these sorts of pieces by, but your post cought my eye, and....

flow....

Coulter's anti-Semitic comment too dangerous to ignore - Los Angeles Times

[Tao_Equus]

Flow,

I agree with you on so much but dont you see that all these Jewish organisations are also jumping on a bandwagon and continuing to promote anti-Semitism themselves? On the part of the presenter, would it not have been far more effective for him to just raise his eyebrows, pull a face and move on.....leaving the public to make of it what they will? Surely that would have been far more powerful than to embark on a media circus of claim and counter claim. I am convinced that all these Israeli state sponsored organisations have no wish to allow any opportunity for the claim of Jew-hate to be quietly ignored. That is the bread and butter of the sympathy they wish to foster, a distraction from the reality that the biggest concentration camp in the world at present is called Gaza.
The Spanish, Black or Native population of the US is on the receiving end of far more race hate than the Jewish community. None of them have a great deal of economic or political power though and so the stories never make it to the front pages. Its all about distraction. Its all bull****.

Tao

[flowperson]

Hi Tao...I'll agree with you on most points except one...my opinion is that it's all about money. Selling bonds for the Israelis... yes. But so much more about selling advertising time by the media conglomerates.The selling of controversial books ghost written for/by media puppets is probably tertiary in all of this.

I can just hear the poor guy's producer now...you'd better pick a good fight with this blonde bimbo who thinks she's a writer if you don't want your numbers to dive and the company to lose money when we lose viewers. The excessive channelization of cable outlets has sliced the money pies much thinner than they used to be.

Sometimes things aren't as conspiratorial as we imagine, and the real answers are much simpler. Go have a pint or two and don't try so hard to make you head hurt in non-alcoholic pursuits my friend.

flow....

[bob x]

If you Google "Spanish" or "Black" or "Native", the front page isn't filled with sites calling for their extermination or otherwise spitting bile about them.

[I, Brian]

The Google "Jew" issue has been around for quite some time now, and Google have consistently taken the approach of trying to improve their results algorithmically, rather than insert their own personal biases into search results.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by bob x

If you Google "Spanish" or "Black" or "Native", the front page isn't filled with sites calling for their extermination or otherwise spitting bile about them.

Exactly, makes you wonder who's making a meal over very little. You do any hunting for real racist crimes against Jews and there are hardly any, and committed by the odd isolated crazy, not by bands of fascists militias. The anti-defamation groups, state sponsored propaganda machines, find a little insignificant ember and they throw an oily rag on it to create as much smoke as possible.

Tao

[I, Brian]

Tao, I think you're kind of missing the point that only a few decades ago, there was a very organised plan to eradicate all Jews from the face of the earth.

It wasn't a matter of simple prejudice, oppression, or exploitation - it was a fully mobilised mass extermination program of anyone found to be Jewish.

Now, I figure if my parents of grandparents had ever gone through that kind of experience, I'd be carrying a certain sensitivity to anti-semiticism, especially when Neo fascism is alive and well today and determinedly wishes to repeat the whole process.

I also wouldn't find any comparison to Gaza and Auschwitz at all convincing - the Israeli state is not committing mass murder of Palestinians on a clinical and industrial level, and never did the Jews of Auschwitz commonly fire rockets at German civilians or send out Jewish suicide bombers to blow up German buses.

[dauer]

It's not just the Holocaust either. That was just the most recent major event that happened. There's a history of persecution of the Jewish people, especially in Christian nations. Muslim nations it was usually not that bad and there Christians typically got it a little worse than Jews when it was bad.

There are still some parts of the world where antisemitism is rampant and some places (e.g. Poland) where it's state-sponsored.

[Muslimwoman]

Thanks for your responses and I take your point Flow about Google trying to proect itself. I just find it upsetting that there are so many hate filled people out there trying to wipe out other people but I never get an apology for the upsetting nature of those sites. Google the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia - no apology. Google the monks in Burma - no apology. Google Mao and the millions he killed or the Russians and their millions - no apology.

I accept they are not sustained attacks over centuries but I find the killing of thousands or millions of people upsetting no matter who does it against who. I am also still worried that this sort of action, unless apologies are made regarding other groups, still feeds the anti-semitic core so rather counter productive imo.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Tao, I think you're kind of missing the point that only a few decades ago, there was a very organised plan to eradicate all Jews from the face of the earth.

It wasn't a matter of simple prejudice, oppression, or exploitation - it was a fully mobilised mass extermination program of anyone found to be Jewish.

Now, I figure if my parents of grandparents had ever gone through that kind of experience, I'd be carrying a certain sensitivity to anti-semiticism, especially when Neo fascism is alive and well today and determinedly wishes to repeat the whole process.

I also wouldn't find any comparison to Gaza and Auschwitz at all convincing - the Israeli state is not committing mass murder of Palestinians on a clinical and industrial level, and never did the Jews of Auschwitz commonly fire rockets at German civilians or send out Jewish suicide bombers to blow up German buses.

I agree that the collective psyche of the Jewish people still suffers from the trauma of the holocaust. But this is being used and manipulated by the Israeli state in ways that do not allow natural healing to take place. They scour the world looking for any nutcase stupid enough to wear a swastika and make sure he gets his 15 minutes of stardom. Neo-fascism thrives on racial agendas that Israel is only too happy to foment and provoke by its foreign policy, its unacceptable treatment of the Palestinian people and by the actions of several prominent Jews on the global political stage. Israel a nation populated by a people who suffered so much seems to take on the role of the abused becoming an abuser.
You are right that for me to call Gaza an Auschwitz is a bit OTT. It is not a concentration camp. But it is most assuredly a ghetto. You would think that a people who had suffered as the Jews have would be the last people to descend to this. As for the rockets. Well frankly I am tired of hearing about them. When Israel daily flies its gunships into Gaza killing indiscriminately what the hell do they expect? Everybody condemns the guy with the pea-shooter trying to hit back at the guy with the machine gun.... why? What would you be doing if you were in that ghetto, average income under a dollar a day, continually being hit from sea and air by high tech weapons? Damn sure I'd have a rocket or two to throw back too if I could. There is no comparison to be drawn with what Israel and what Hamas is capable of and does. And I am tired of hearing this Israeli red herring rhetoric. People seem to forget that Hamas was and is the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people in a landslide victory. They have stated time and time again that they are willing to talk but nobody will talk to them. Instead they set up a puppet and give him the financial reserves that should be being used to relieve the terrible suffering of the people of Gaza.
Already on this forum I have been lambasted for my opinions. Opinions that were more or less mainstream even a couple of years ago. I have noted with sorrow that the balance of reporting has swung away from revealing the atrocities Israel is committing and we now have subtle apologetics instead. When we get anything at all. Sad days indeed. Perhaps I am angry over this issue, perhaps I have shown insensitivity to the horror Jewish people still feel for the events that took place under the Nazi's. I have no wish to detract from the condemnation every sane person must feel when reviewing that period of history but there is a time to move on. The peoples of Mongolia, Siberia and several peoples in Africa have suffered as great and sometimes worse death tolls in 'ethnic cleansing'. Even today in Darfur it goes on. Israel shows no regard for anyone but itself. It has become its own worst enemy.

Tao