Is Truth Relative...

[Conscience]

Jesus once said, "I am the Truth." Mohammad once said, "Jesus is not the truth, but rather Allah." Both said something different, and implied that what they said was absolute truth.

Putting all the philosophy, and verbal gymnastics aside, please just answer the following. Which one of these men told the truth? Please note that neither of the two men was speaking in parables, but instead openly that what they said was absolute truth.

[Pathless]

Hi Conscience,

Without doing verbal gymnastics, I'll just point to what someone said earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by Paladin

If person A just wants to be "right" and person B is seeking a deeper understanding of God, then then dialogue becomes impossible and pointless.

I think that is all that needs to be said. Although, being a vapid, relative-truth seeking individual myself, I'd be more than happy to flog this dead horse with you.

You ask:

Originally Posted by Conscience

Jesus once said, "I am the Truth." Mohammad once said, "Jesus is not the truth, but rather Allah." Both said something different, and implied that what they said was absolute truth.

Putting all the philosophy, and verbal gymnastics aside, please just answer the following. Which one of these men told the truth? Please note that neither of the two men was speaking in parables, but instead openly that what they said was absolute truth.

It seems to me that the question you are asking is either divisive or decisive. Oh, sorry; I just did some verbal gymnastics. You ask us to choose between A and B, and in the sentences and demands that surround your question, you further define and limit our choices by making it clear that we must pick one or the other; there is no room for either/or, and there is no room for thought or debate. Simply pick! A or B!! For or Against!! Black or White!! Right or Wrong!! All which reinforces dualistic and dichotomous thinking that doesn't get you one step closer to the Absolute Truth that you are seeking.

You say truth is Absolute, but you are asking us to pick between two relative truths. Furthermore, one of those relative truths is your personal Absolute Truth, and so you've already decided for us which answer is right or wrong.

Jesus said a couple things that I think are worth looking at in the context of this discussion. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, so I'll paraphrase:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:

"I and the Father are One."

[Conscience]

Hi Conscience,

Without doing verbal gymnastics, I'll just point to what someone said earlier in this thread: Quote:Originally Posted by Paladin

If person A just wants to be "right" and person B is seeking a deeper understanding of God, then then dialogue becomes impossible and pointless. I think that is all that needs to be said. Although, being a vapid, relative-truth seeking individual myself, I'd be more than happy to flog this dead horse with you.

Im glad you said that you "think," rather than saying you "know." Heres what I believe. I believe it is impossible for anyone to know the mind of God, e.g., who he is, what he wants, why has he made us, etc. If person A just wants to be right from what he has found, he is STILL wrong. If person B seeks deeper, he is seeking in vain, and his end result is also failure. NONE of these persons will ever know God. How will we know God? By a revalation of God himself. There are many books that claim to be God's words, but only one prove it. A person such as person B is more likely to find God, because he puts forth the actual effort to find truth. And, God says, "Whoever seeks will find."

It seems to me that the question you are asking is either divisive or decisive. Oh, sorry; I just did some verbal gymnastics.

Nice to see that you're trying. Thanks!

You ask us to choose between A and B, and in the sentences and demands that surround your question, you further define and limit our choices by making it clear that we must pick one or the other; there is no room for either/or, and there is no room for thought or debate. Simply pick! A or B!! For or Against!! Black or White!! Right or Wrong!! All which reinforces dualistic and dichotomous thinking that doesn't get you one step closer to the Absolute Truth that you are seeking.

Why not? Isnt thing either black or white? By truth's own definiation it is certain, unchanging, and absolute. There is no relativity in truth. Someone on this board said that "truth is not relative, only our perception of it is." And, that is the truth. The problem we as people have with acknowledging truth is birthed from our own pride which leads us to precieve things, and worse, assume our presumptions to be right. The truth is, we have NO right to precieve what truth is. Truth was here before us, and it remains after we're gone. Again, the only way to know truth, is to have a revelation from truth, or God, the source of truth. Again, there are many that claim to speak for God, and there are many books that claim to be the word of God. But, only One proves it.

You say truth is Absolute

Yes I did. How can truth be anything but absolute, certain, unchanging, or sure? Please spare the philosophy, just give me an honest answer.

Jesus said a couple things that I think are worth looking at in the context of this discussion. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, so I'll paraphrase:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

I'd suggest you start back looking into the Bible really soon. And, while you're reading, do what you said we should do - "Look at things in context." If you do that, you'll see that the scriptured you qoted is talking about hipocrites, those that judge others, when they are guility of doing worse.

"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Sorry, I didnt get that. Was there more to it? Was that even Biblical?

Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:

"I and the Father are One."

That is absolute truth.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Pathless

"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:

"I and the Father are One."

That's Hot.

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Jesus once said, "I am the Truth." Mohammad once said, "Jesus is not the truth, but rather Allah." Both said something different, and implied that what they said was absolute truth.

Putting all the philosophy, and verbal gymnastics aside, please just answer the following. Which one of these men told the truth? Please note that neither of the two men was speaking in parables, but instead openly that what they said was absolute truth.

Both told the truth.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Im glad you said that you "think," rather than saying you "know." Heres what I believe. I believe it is impossible for anyone to know the mind of God, e.g., who he is, what he wants, why has he made us, etc. If person A just wants to be right from what he has found, he is STILL wrong. If person B seeks deeper, he is seeking in vain, and his end result is also failure. NONE of these persons will ever know God. How will we know God? By a revalation of God himself. There are many books that claim to be God's words, but only one prove it. A person such as person B is more likely to find God, because he puts forth the actual effort to find truth. And, God says, "Whoever seeks will find."

It is not impossible for us to know the mind of God. It is impossible for us to catch up to God's wisdom. We are learning the mind of God everyday through the sciences, love, the Bible, discussions with others. Person A is wrong for not opening his mind to see the wider picture but his thesis is not necessarily incorrect. And if Person B is seeking a deeper understanding of the Kingdom of God, his search is not in vain, because he is on the path - though Christians would rather have Person B in church or something like that. The only thing that proves the Bible to be God's words is because you believe it is. That is the only strength that the Bible has - your belief that it is something worthy of getting you closer to God.
Small evidence that God lives in you as well.

[Conscience]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I believe as the Bible teaches, when sin entered man, we lost our connection with God. Because of sin, it is impossible to know what God wants us to do, because we're by nature (being born in sin), enemies of God. This is why we must be "born again." Through Jesus, we're born spiritually back into a relationship with God, knowing him, and having him lead us. By the way, I dont believe this because of faith, I passed the stage of faith awhile ago. Now, I know.

But, thats just me.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Conscience

"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Sorry, I didnt get that. Was there more to it? Was that even Biblical?

I think it is Biblical, but I am paraphrasing. It may also be from the Gospel of Thomas; I can't be sure.

Originally Posted by Conscience

Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:

"I and the Father are One."

That is absolute truth.

Oh, I agree.

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Pathless

I think it is Biblical, but I am paraphrasing. It may also be from the Gospel of Thomas; I can't be sure.


Oh, I agree.

Yes. It's the Gospel of Thomas.

[Conscience]

The Gospel of Thomas is not apart of the Bible.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Conscience

By the way, I dont believe this because of faith, I passed the stage of faith awhile ago. Now, I know.

But, thats just me.

No offense, but the Bible says throughout that faith is important. Not knowledge, but faith. In fact, you yourself have quoted passages that indicate it is the basis for your salvation. I thought your whole point has been to have faith. Did I misunderstand your position?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Jesus once said, "I am the Truth." Mohammad once said, "Jesus is not the truth, but rather Allah." Both said something different, and implied that what they said was absolute truth.

Putting all the philosophy, and verbal gymnastics aside, please just answer the following. Which one of these men told the truth? Please note that neither of the two men was speaking in parables, but instead openly that what they said was absolute truth.

I believe Jesus told the truth here, not Mohammed. Jesus displayed the true living God in his life. Muhammed did not lay down his life for anyone & as far as I know he did not rise from the dead either. so I am sticking with Jesus as the truth, the way & the life.

[Conscience]

Path of One,

Im afarid you missed the point of my last post. I didnt say that I dont have faith, just that Im passed that stage. According to the Bible, faith "is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not yet seen." In the begining, I had hoped that Jesus is the truth, and that he died for my sins. So, with that in mind, I confessed my sins to him, and trusted him only for my salvation. In time, I found that my faith was not in vain, as God proved truth to me. Now, I no longer just have faith, I've evolved into a deeper understand, and KNOWING that Jesus is who he says he is.

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Conscience

The Gospel of Thomas is not apart of the Bible.

And . . .

[Conscience]

...its not God's words. Why even qoute it?