Israel vs Hamas escalates

[bananabrain]

Agreed on the quotes, too - all it shows is the extensive bankrolling of Israel by the USA.

Q, I find your defense of Israel and the USA over their technology and economic power is pathetic. Absolutely disgusting and disgraceful.

so, basically, the fact that israel is technologically advanced and well-educated is basically because the US pays for everything?

what a load of absolute *****e*. so, presumably the US is paying all the israeli students' tuition? it's financing all those startups? there's no ingenuity there? no creativity? no innovation? it's all just a big charity shop and there's nothing going on there to do with say, freedom of speech, democracy, intellectual freedom or lack of corruption? come on, guys. if this stuff could be fixed by huge amounts of cash, don't you think all that oil wealth would be paying for better universities elsewhere in the middle east?

all of this sounds just a teensy bit prejudiced to me.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

...pathetic joke. America was a step away from Kings and emperors... today I think it needs to take a step away from presidential regimes if it wants to survive.

Q, I find your defense of Israel and the USA over their technology and economic power is pathetic. Absolutely disgusting and disgraceful.

I am sorry you feel that way. Never the less, I still defend my stand on the matter, and the issue.
v/r

Q

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

so, basically, the fact that israel is technologically advanced and well-educated is basically because the US pays for everything?

I'm thinking of the economic & military aid that the US provides Israel, along with the huge amount of national debt, which skew the economic figures Q posted. Not trying to be prejudiced, as much as indicate an unbalanced argument.

I remember reading up on economic figures from a Phillips Atlas in the 90's, and being incredibly surprised that Israel topped the worlds biggest debt and aid per capita. Though Israel's economy has grown substantially since then, it still reads as an economy that survives on debt and is still spending more than it generates.

Certainly it's not the only country that does so - the US is famous for it - which is why issues of account deficits are repeatedly cited as concerns for its economic condition, rather than simply focusing on the more rosey economic indicators.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Q, I find your defense of Israel and the USA over their technology and economic power is pathetic. Absolutely disgusting and disgraceful.

Discussion of Middle East issues is always going to generate contention at the best of times - but let's try and keep it civil, please.

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste all,

i often hear the accusation that "Israel isn't a real nation" since it was created by the U.N.

of course, i do not hear the same accusation leveled against Libya or Pakistan or Sudan or any of the other nations that the U.N. fixed boundaries for.
~v

True, many countries had their borders fixed by the UN, but that involved the drawing of boundaries between indigenous peoples in their own homelands, and not the cutting of a piece of land from a region and unjustifiably handing it over to an alien people from faraway lands while dispossessing and disenfranchising the native population in the process.

No one gathered Libyans from Germany and placed them west of Egypt. Rather, the Libyans had always been there and all was needed to do is to precisely determine a boundary between Egypt and Libya. As for Israel and Palestine that was not even near the case. There was a region called Palestine with a native population called Palestinians, who owned the land and had their own life and native culture. After WWI, some colonial powers in Europe decided to take this piece of land and give it to the Jews of Europe against the will of its native population. Before that there was no Israel and no conflict in the region except with the colonial powers. After that we all know what has happened. And yes, from a historical point of view this is unjust and until people and governments in the West recognize the act and the extent of it as unjust we will continue down this path of wars until the issue is forcibly resolved. I, however, doubt that this will happen because the source of the problem is not Arabs and Israelis, nor Muslims and Jews, but rather Westerners and Christians cheering for the second coming of Christ, as originally planned.

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

In anticipation of those who want to know just exactly what "Israel" has done for the world:

Truth in advertising is important if you want to be believed. I recommend you check your sources for data because most of your information is absolutly wrong.

Further, most of what you are listing as "Isareli" achievements are actually "American" achievements paid for by American investors and US grants to Israel or tax incentives to purchase Israeli products (yes, American law rewards you for buying Israeli products over American ones), as well as popular support by corporate America for Israel. Left to their own, I doubt they would be able to make anything other than guns and bullets.

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I know. I was continuing my train of thought. What I meant was the US doesn't require the permission of the rest of the world to protect what it considers its own security and that of its allies. Regardless of what picture the media paints, I do not believe this series of actions by the US were done without serious thought and weighing of consequences. Indeed I believe there is a much bigger piece of this issue hidden under the "water" so to speak and what we have seen is only the tip of the iceberg that floats above.

v/r

Q

Oh, I get it. It is another cosmic mystery?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by The Lord

Truth in advertising is important if you want to be believed. I recommend you check your sources for data because most of your information is absolutly wrong.

Further, most of what you are listing as "Isareli" achievements are actually "American" achievements paid for by American investors and US grants to Israel or tax incentives to purchase Israeli products (yes, American law rewards you for buying Israeli products over American ones), as well as popular support by corporate America for Israel. Left to their own, I doubt they would be able to make anything other than guns and bullets.

I did check my sources, and stand on my post as accurate. If one wishes to show errency, they should present sources to counter my "facts". Of course that takes time and effort to research...

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by The Lord

Oh, I get it. It is another cosmic mystery?

I do not recall being sarcastic or negating your thoughts, just because I may or may not like what is being said...

v/r

Q

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I did check my sources, and stand on my post as accurate. If one wishes to show errency, they should present sources to counter my "facts". Of course that takes time and effort to research...

v/r

Q

Hardly any effort. Take for example one of your statements: "Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined."

Any child can check this out in a minute from many sources. Israel ir borderd immediately by these countries:
1) Occupied Palestine: Gaza 768 Million, and Westbank 1.8 Billion)
2) Jordan 26.8 Billion
3) Syria 72.3 Billion
4) Lebanon 23.7 Billion
5) Egypt 303.5 Billion

I think you have enough education to do the math, right?

As for your absurd claim that you do not have to provide evidence but that we who call your bluff must instead, I think you should study some courses in logic. No offense intended.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by The Lord

Hardly any effort. Take for example one of your statements: "Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined."

Any child can check this out in a minute from many sources. Israel ir borderd immediately by these countries:
1) Occupied Palestine: Gaza 768 Million, and Westbank 1.8 Billion)
2) Jordan 26.8 Billion
3) Syria 72.3 Billion
4) Lebanon 23.7 Billion
5) Egypt 303.5 Billion

I think you have enough education to do the math, right?

As for your absurd claim that you do not have to provide evidence but that we who call your bluff must instead, I think you should study some courses in logic. No offense intended.

Of course not. You still haven't shown where you got the statistics from. And before you continue with "neither did you", I wasn't challenging anyone. I on the otherhand made a statement, and it is up to you to prove me a liar. Not the other way around.

Oh, I think you might have placed Egypt's earnings off by a couple of decimal places.

But I look forward to the links to show me the Gross earnings from each country mentioned above.

I also look forward to being debunked on my original post about the accomplishments of Israel, that is prove me a liar.

v/r

Q

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Of course not. You still haven't shown where you got the statistics from. And before you continue with "neither did you", I wasn't challenging anyone. I on the otherhand made a statement, and it is up to you to prove me a liar. Not the other way around.

Oh, I think you might have placed Egypt's earnings off by a couple of decimal places.

But I look forward to the links to show me the Gross earnings from each country mentioned above.

I also look forward to being debunked on my original post about the accomplishments of Israel, that is prove me a liar.

v/r

Q

You got to be kidding, right? Do not base your knowledge on propaganda material. Open any reputable source about statistical data on countries and see for yourself. You can search for academic information but I doubt that you are willing to do that. However, if you believe in American information you can look at the CIA World Factbooks for a quick search on the net. You can also look and UN data or for official country data. Better yet, ask a child to do it for you since they do not carry biased baggage around and perhaps could see things as they are better.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by The Lord

You got to be kidding, right? Do not base your knowledge on propaganda material. Open any reputable source about statistical data on countries and see for yourself. You can search for academic information but I doubt that you are willing to do that. However, if you believe in American information you can look at the CIA World Factbooks for a quick search on the net. You can also look and UN data or for official country data. Better yet, ask a child to do it for you since they do not carry biased baggage around and perhaps could see things as they are better.

Hey, you wanted this. Prove your point. I've had to do so here at CR on many occasions, when I said someone was wrong...show me that I am a liar.

That is after all what you declared me to be...a LIAR! So, prove it.

edit: your other option is to state that yours is an opinion...

[I, Brian]

Okay, The Lord, you can can that attitude if you plan to keep on posting here. We don't throw insults at other posters - this isn't usenet, but a *moderated* community. This thread keeps on topic.

[Jack Halyard]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

This war would not be possible without the declaration as issued by Congress, and only then after a majority vote of 2/3rds. Congress declared the war, not the president.

I may be nitpicking here, but the situation in Iraq is a military engagement approved by Congress and not a declared war. Technically Congress has only declared war on foreign nations eleven times in its history. However, there have been thirteen military engagements approved by Congress.