its been born

mee · 02-03-2008, 08:11 PM

And a great sign was seen in heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars, and she was pregnant. And she cries out in her pains and in her agony to give birth."—Revelation 12:1, 2.

this symbolic woman is Jehovahs symbolic wife

And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child."—Revelation 12:3, 4.

This dragon is Satan

And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days." (Revelation 12:5, 6)

the male child is GODS HEAVENLY KINGDOM and it was born in 1914 .

The appointed time for the nations to rule without interruption by God came to an end in 1914. (Luke 21:24)

soon Gods heavenly kingdom will put an end to all of the manmade goverments and rulerships . Just as Daniel 2;44 tells us

And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; DANIEL 2;44

Yes the kingdom was born and set up in 1914 and Jesus has been GIVEN great aurthority .

"I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.Daniel 7;13-14

ITS ALL HAPPENING IN THE LAST DAYS

are you putting your trust in this kingdom with Jesus as a ruling king ?

two opposing organizations have come clearly into view—Jehovah’s heavenly organization as pictured by the woman and Satan’s demonic organization that challenges God’s sovereignty. The great issue of sovereignty must be settled. But how? Satan, still dragging the demons along with him, is like a vicious beast of prey eyeing a potential victim. He is waiting for the woman to give birth. He wants to devour this expected infant because he knows that it poses an ominous threat to his continued existence and that of the world over which he exercises rulership.—John 14:30.

but now because the woman has given birth and the male child has Gods protection , he cannot get to it ,so he is out to get anyone on the earth that upholds that heavenly kingdom .
thats why there is great opposition to the heavenly kingdom that was born in 1914 in line with bible prophecy and chronology.

Dah-veeth · 02-04-2008, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

thousand two hundred and sixty days." (Revelation 12:5, 6)

A day for a year... 1260 A.H. is 1844 A.D.

I know this is the Christian forum, but if you don't mind I'll give a brief... um... a little of what I think this means...

The twelve stars I believe were the twelve Imams of Shi'ih Islam, hence the "thousand two hundred and sixty days" mentioned later... 1260 A.H. being the same as 1844 A.D. (the Millerite calculation)

The dragon, I believe, represents usurpers of Islam who tried (or did) corrupt Islam (especially in the eyes of the West) and made it a lifeless body in a sense, or overshadowed it with a dark cloud...

cyberpi · 02-04-2008, 03:51 AM

I submit that dark clouds are good from many different perspectives.

China Cat Sunflower · 02-04-2008, 04:24 AM

It's never a good idea to try to exchange metaphysical imagery for literal history. It's also never a good idea to try to transplant mythology specific to one era into another era.

Chris

Saltmeister · 02-04-2008, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I submit that dark clouds are good from many different perspectives.

But what are these dark clouds specifically and how are they good? Do we learn from them the folly of their very existence?

mee · 02-04-2008, 08:36 AM

many people are talking about dark clouds but the bible is full of GOODNEWS, and it is all about the birth of GODS HEAVENLY KINGDOM , with Gods son as a reigning king .

we are now well along into bible prophecy and chronology, and things are moving ahead and the heavenly kingdom is working just fine .

the woman spoken of in the book of revelation gave birth to her child , and the book of revelation is about our days, and the revealing and uncovering goes on .

we are in the Lords day , and Jesus is a reigning king .
but the dragon(satan) knows that he(satan) only has a short period of time left before he is locked away for a 1000 years . so his aim is to get people to focus on other things rather than the HEAVENLY KINGDOM . and make no mistake about it, any one that upholds that heavenly kingdom will be a target for satan , and he will try his very best to get you to not believe in the heavenly kingdom .

Even people who claim to follow the bible and its teachings are misled to turn away from fullfilled prophecy. yes satan is the great deciever .

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14

yes the woman has given birth to Gods heavenly kingdom, and Jesus is a reigning king

.

And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people, REVELATION 14;6

ITS ALL HAPPENING ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST DAYS

mee · 02-04-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dah-veeth

A day for a year... 1260 A.H. is 1844 A.D.

I know this is the Christian forum, but if you don't mind I'll give a brief... um... a little of what I think this means...

The twelve stars I believe were the twelve Imams of Shi'ih Islam, hence the "thousand two hundred and sixty days" mentioned later... 1260 A.H. being the same as 1844 A.D. (the Millerite calculation)

The dragon, I believe, represents usurpers of Islam who tried (or did) corrupt Islam (especially in the eyes of the West) and made it a lifeless body in a sense, or overshadowed it with a dark cloud...

God’s

Kingdom Is Born!

Vision 7—Revelation 12:1-17
Subject: The heavenly woman gives birth, Michael battles with Satan and casts him to earth
Time of fulfillment: From the enthronement of Christ Jesus in 1914 up to the great tribulation

Notice that she is crowned with 12 stars. The number 12 is associated with completeness in an organizational setting. Hence, these 12 stars seem to indicate that she is an organizational arrangement in heaven, just as ancient Jerusalem was on earth. Jerusalem above is Jehovah’s universal organization of spirit creatures that acts as his wife, both in serving him and in producing offspring.

But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.GALATIONS 4 ;26

ompare the 12 tribes of fleshly Israel, the 12 apostles, the 12 tribes of spiritual Israel, and the 12 gates, 12 angels, and 12 foundation stones of the New Jerusalem.—Revelation 21:12-14.

Exactly what, though, is Jerusalem above? Since Paul spoke of her as "above," and John sees her in heaven, she is clearly not an earthly city; neither is she the same as "New Jerusalem," since that organization is the bride of Christ, not Jehovah’s wife. (Revelation 21:2)

Thomas · 02-04-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

The appointed time for the nations to rule without interruption by God came to an end in 1914. (Luke 21:24)

Luke 21:24 says:
"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword and shall be led away captives into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles till the times of the nations be fulfilled."
Perhaps he was talking of the Fall of Jerusalem in AD70? Where does Luke say 1914?

If one considers that Jerusalem fell to the Ottoman Turks in 1517, who would hold the city until its capture by the British in 1917. In 1922 the Mandate of Palestine was established, and in 1947 a Jewish state founded.

Apart from all this, I would like you to explain how you arrive at the year 1914, without a magical interpretation of the text, which is itself forbidden by Scripture.

And furthermore:
Mathew 24:36
"But of that day and hour no one knoweth: no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone."
Now if you say you know the dates, which you do, then either Scripture is wrong, or you are wrong ... and if Scripture is wrong, then nothing in Scripture is reliable ...

Thomas

Azure24 · 02-04-2008, 04:25 PM

mee how wrong are you? If God's Kingdom did start in 1914, why are there still man made kingdoms? When Jesus rules the earth, he will rule it only with the rightous, though when God rules, he will rule it with everyone!

In fact read below C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y, Corinthians 15:22-28 tells us the ORDER in which EVERYONE! YES! EVEN HITLER!! Will live to together with God!!

"22For as in Adam ALL die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive[this eventually happens in the end]. 23But each in his own turn[this will NOT happen immediately BUT in TURNS]: Christ[is first], the firstfruits; then[next], when he comes, those who belong to him[the rightous/his followers are second]. 24Then the end will come[the end of Christ's reign with all the rightous lasting an EONIAN (Mostly 9 out of 10 times, the word "Eternal" is wrongly translated from the Greek word for eonian/age-abiding life )], when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all[I hardly doubt the Bible means "a few", but instead ALL]".

This is very clear! It then goes on to say this...

34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God [I wonder who?]—I say this to your shame[shame on you mee!].

Tao_Equus · 02-04-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dah-veeth

A day for a year... 1260 A.H. is 1844 A.D.

I know this is the Christian forum, but if you don't mind I'll give a brief... um... a little of what I think this means...

The twelve stars I believe were the twelve Imams of Shi'ih Islam, hence the "thousand two hundred and sixty days" mentioned later... 1260 A.H. being the same as 1844 A.D. (the Millerite calculation)

The dragon, I believe, represents usurpers of Islam who tried (or did) corrupt Islam (especially in the eyes of the West) and made it a lifeless body in a sense, or overshadowed it with a dark cloud...

The language is also very typical of ancient accounts of cometary impacts on Earth of which there have been many. Fair enough for those that had no knowledge of cosmic phenomena to attribute them status as portent of the will of God(s). But today, for anyone to start using such words is tantamount to lunacy.

Tao

cyberpi · 02-05-2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

But what are these dark clouds specifically and how are they good? Do we learn from them the folly of their very existence?

What folly? I say dark clouds are good, blessings in disguise. Without them all life as we know it on Earth would cease to exist. I am speaking both of the dark clouds in the sky, and of the very real dark clouds in people's minds. Dark clouds have a good purpose. Blessings in disguise.

Matthew 5:45 That you may be the Sons of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Dah-veeth · 02-05-2008, 03:21 AM

The dark clouds I'm talking about symbolize things that keep people from seeing the light.

mee · 02-05-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

And furthermore:
Mathew 24:36
"But of that day and hour no one knoweth: no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone."
Now if you say you know the dates, which you do, then either Scripture is wrong, or you are wrong ... and if Scripture is wrong, then nothing in Scripture is reliable ...

Thomas

yes it is quite correct to say that noone knows the day or the hour when Jehovahs time table is up , the nations will be on one side or the other side when Jehovahs day happens, having the right ATTITUDE now ,and being with Gods people is the thing to do then hopefully we can be judged as a sheep , rather than a rebellious goat . i am a work in progress

dont get confused between Jesus taking up kingship in the heavenly kingdom Daniel 7;13-14 and Jesus coming to make the final judgement . yes he has come into kingdom power but the final judgement of people is with Jehovah and Jesus christ.

so the heavenly kingdom was established in 1914 (inline with bible prophecy and chronology) and Jesus was given kingship in that heavenly kingdomDaniel 2;44 daniel 7;13-14, but the part in Daniel 2;44 where it says HE WILL CRUSH AND PUT AN END TO ALL THESE OTHER KINGDOMS, Has not happened yet , so Jesus is ruling amidst his enemies .

not for much longer though ,because when those manmade goverments and rulerships have been crushed , then Jesus can rule Gods kingdom without any interference from manmade rulerships .

so i have put my vote in for Gods kingdom and i am waving my symbolic palm branch to welcome this newly crowned king because it is the only way to salvation

mee · 02-05-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dah-veeth

The dark clouds I'm talking about symbolize things that keep people from seeing the light.

yes, and as 2 CORINTHIANS 4;4 SAYS

If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god(SATAN) of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Yes there are some very dark clouds out there

For, look! darkness itself will cover the earth, and thick gloom the national groups; but upon you Jehovah will shine forth, and upon you his own glory will be seen. Isaiah 60;2

yes the mental darkness is very much ,but Gods people are shining brightly

Thomas · 02-05-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

yes it is quite correct to say that noone knows the day or the hour when Jehovahs time table is up

But JWs have stated dates since their inception, and revised them on more than one occasion, have they not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

... having the right ATTITUDE now, and being with Gods people is the thing to do then hopefully we can be judged as a sheep , rather than a rebellious goat . i am a work in progress

The right attitude is in not trying to second-guess God, which is what JW doctrine on this issue does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

dont get confused between Jesus taking up kingship in the heavenly kingdom Daniel 7;13-14 and Jesus coming to make the final judgement. yes he has come into kingdom power but the final judgement of people is with Jehovah and Jesus christ.

I am not at all confused. In my Tradition Jesus was, is, and always shall be one with the Father. It is yours which posits change, and seeks to date the change itself — the very notion of change in the Deity Itself is something that Jesus refuted: "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

so the heavenly kingdom was established in 1914 ...

You're doing it again — That's your own interpretation, created to suit yourselves, it is called eigesis — reading what one wants to read into the text, rather than what the text says.

And you have not answered how the date 1914 (among others) was arrived at, without recourse to a mode of divination, which is itself a mode of magic forbidden by Scripture, in that it is an attempt to out-guess God.

Thomas