Jack Straw

[Caimanson]

James, the veil predates Islam and Christianity.
It was a cultural custom of modesty in several "pagan" cultures, in the Greek world and elsewhere.
That's why Paul made reference to it, and that's why I see it as a relative custom, depending on the values of the times and culture.

Have a look at this link: http://www.bible-researcher.com/headcoverings3.html

[james]

the veil cannot predate islam, islam has existed since before the universes creation,you might think how...but we beleive god has always existedd and taht there is not god but Allah, nothing can be joined to Him or compared, this fact has always existed, as god has always existed,and the angels existed before us and knew this fact

[Kors4545]

TestTest

[Virtual_Cliff]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

And as per Straw's comments - apparently all he said is that he respectfully asks women with veils on their faces when speaking to him to remove it, so that they can see each other face to face.

The trouble is, Brian, I don't think it was respectful. Suppose he was in Kuwait and was introduced to a senior Kuwaiti diplomat and his wife, would he ask this man's wife "respectfully" to unveil? I doubt it.

By making his request he is making an implied criticism of the culture in which this dress is normal. He is further implying (in fact saying openly) that our Western culture is superior. What he fails to understand is that our Western culture is widely held to be both decadent and blasphemous by many other cultures.

What makes it worse is that he has opened the lid to a Pandora's box full of racism that he cannot control, and which can only lead to widespread unrest and resentment.

[DT Strain]

Originally Posted by james

the veil cannot predate islam, islam has existed since before the universes creation,you might think how...but we beleive god has always existedd and taht there is not god but Allah, nothing can be joined to Him or compared, this fact has always existed, as god has always existed,and the angels existed before us and knew this fact

Allah and Islam are two different things aren't they? Allah is an entity and Islam is a body of thought, belief, and lifestyle. I've read that the basis of Islam is "There is one God and Muhammad is his messenger". How can Islam then predate the birth of Muhammad? Also, how can it predate the Koran? And if Islam means "submission to Allah's will" then how can it exist before mankind? (who is doing the 'submitting'?)

By saying Islam existed before the Koran and before Muhammad, aren't you implying that Islam could exist *without* the Koran and *without* Muhammad? What Muslim would agree with that?

[james]

islam did exist before Muhammad yes, not being the islam we know today. the first religion we call judaism...as we beleive the original message given to these people was there is no god but Allah, the messgae got changed,but the pure form was islam, although the religion was commonly called judaism.but i beleive they were muslims as they beleived in one god, how could the true religion (islam) appear only 1427 years ago?its always existed,it existed before the Quran, Adam (a.s) did not have a Quran,torah or gospel, but was a muslim and followed islam as he beleived in one god and worshiped no one else but Him alone.so if the quran didnt exist islam would still be here as islam teaches us to beleive in one god and non but Him. before mankind the angels existed,and they are in constant submission to Allah so are msulims. god craeted plants before humans right, therefore there is another 'being' worshiping Him.we beleive ALL living thigs are in constant submission to Allah except humans,who have free will as we are the highest of His creation. without any messengers,prophets,books,words or anything, you could be a muslim, if you beleive
la illaha il Allah
there is no god but Allah
lukily today we have Muhammad to follow,by accepting Muhammad we accept the Quran and everything that Muhammad said as Allahs word,islam is a simple religion, and focuses on human nature and one god...not 3...and islam is for everyone,not just people from israel

[DT Strain]

Thanks James,

If there were Muslims before the writing of the Quran, why did it need to be written? Did this act open up Islam to more people and make it more available for more people to become Muslims?

If so, then weren't the people of the earth who lived before the writing of the Quran at a disadvantage to the others? If there was no disadvantage, then what possible function could writing the Quran have?

Thanks

[james]

as long as they beleived in gods messgae at their time,then its ok,the Quran was written as its the perfected complete word for word of god.lets think about chrisianity, people say its the right faith so all people should be christian, wot baout the people before the gospel, what about those before the torah..tehrefore what is the poitn of these being written?

the peopel who beleived in one god (Allah) before the Quran then they were muslim and He will accept them if He wills,just as He does with everyone.Allah revealed the Quarn at the time He did because He wanted to,i cannot justify His reasons as He knows best.but just as the Quran was revealed at that time the gospel was revealed later tahn the torah...why?islam is not jsut Quran, Quran consisits of some teachings from gospel and torah to, god revealed these 2 books at differnt times,also the psalms, so what about the people before these,were they not jews or christians then?

the Quran is the final book which has bits from all scriptures in,but they are a pure form in the Quran, how could there have been a disadvantage before the Quran, tahts not fair is it,wot baout those before the gospel, do you beleive theyre punished.how can that be fair if they were born early, god is most merciful,islam ahs always existed as it is the true religion which teaches of ALL things, this religion tells me how to be a son, father, brother, how to act, talk, behave, pray, worship, eat, drink, sleep, walk, every action you can thing of, we dont believ the only form of worship is prayer, every thing i du is in the name of Allah, and considered as worship to Him.

if i go out of the house glorifying His name, ma whole journey is praising Him, what religion do you follow?