Jehovah's Witness I Need Your Help - Page 3

TJ1 · 10-03-2006, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

yes, I do see the inclusive. Everyone of those men had an inclusive role to play in the perfection of God's ideal for mankind. I see no contradiction. Indeed, without them, there would have been flaws, yet there were none.

So are you saying that Peter is himself Andrew, James is himself John, Philip is himself Bartholomew, etc.? Isn't this what you're doing with John 17:3, saying Jesus is himself "the only true God?"

TJ

Quahom1 · 10-03-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ1

So are you saying that Peter is himself Andrew, James is himself John, Philip is himself Bartholomew, etc.? Isn't this what you're doing with John 17:3, saying Jesus is himself "the only true God?"

TJ

I am called Q, and Quahom, and I have a personal name...does that make me three different people? Or one, manifested in three different ways, depending upon the circumstances?

TJ1 · 10-03-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I am called Q, and Quahom, and I have a personal name...does that make me three different people? Or one, manifested in three different ways, depending upon the circumstances?

So you are saying that Jesus and his Father are the same person? He calls his Father "the only true God." I don't see how Jesus fits into that scripturally.

TJ

Quahom1 · 10-03-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ1

So you are saying that Jesus and his Father are the same person? He calls his Father "the only true God." I don't see how Jesus fits into that scripturally.

TJ

I don't know TJ. He also is clear that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. He states He is the Alpha and Omega. He makes it clear that He created the heavens and the earth, that He was before the beginning of time, and likes to point out very human concepts of time to drive His point home to us in ways we can understand, that He is the author of life. He also does not stop us from worshipping Him (something reserved only for God, a very jealous God at that). However, if He is God, then there is NO CONFLICT in what HE HAS DECLARED, to man.

TJ1 · 10-03-2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I don't know TJ. He also is clear that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. He states He is the Alpha and Omega. He makes it clear that He created the heavens and the earth, that He was before the beginning of time, and likes to point out very human concepts of time to drive His point home to us in ways we can understand, that He is the author of life. He also does not stop us from worshipping Him (something reserved only for God, a very jealous God at that). However, if He is God, then there is NO CONFLICT in what HE HAS DECLARED, to man.

I've addressed most of these points earlier in this thread. Perhaps you'd like to interact with what I've posted?

Otherwise, you could provide your evidence to back up these claims and we can discuss it anew.

TJ

Quahom1 · 10-03-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ1

I've addressed most of these points earlier in this thread. Perhaps you'd like to interact with what I've posted?

Otherwise, you could provide your evidence to back up these claims and we can discuss it anew.

TJ

Apparently not "satisfactorilly", nor do you have to, you see. And you certainly do not have to answer to the likes of me TJ.

I would love to debate you on the merits of one form of Christian faith vs. another, but I'm not at liberty to "hoard the board" as it were. Nor, would I wish to subject you to being overwhelmed upon. I think you see the wisdom of my thought here.

Besides, what is a chess game anyway? You believe, that is all that matters. I believe, we all believe that Jesus is the savior of man...yes?

China Cat Sunflower · 10-03-2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ1

Hi Dor.

I didn't think we were going in circles and I didn't quote from the NWT. I quoted from other, popular, modern translations.

Perhaps you could explain to me how you understand the verses below.

John 17:1-3 (KJV)
"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Notice that Jesus is speaking to his Father when he calles him "the only true God" and then mentions himself apart from "the only true God." Do you still view Jesus as "the only true God," and if so why?

Thanks.

TJ

Take a look at verse 5:

Quote:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5 (KJV)

Chris

BlaznFattyz · 10-03-2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ1

So you are saying that Jesus and his Father are the same person? He calls his Father "the only true God." I don't see how Jesus fits into that scripturally.

TJ

the father, the son, and the holy spirit are the three manifestations that make up the one true living god. jesus is not on earth as a man anymore, he is back with the father in heaven, yet now he is glorified in body and spirit above all things and that has been given to him by the father, whom he was with before all things.

TJ1 · 10-03-2006, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Apparently not "satisfactorilly", nor do you have to, you see. And you certainly do not have to answer to the likes of me TJ.

That's fine, but it's not much of a discussion then. If you fell I haven't answered them adequately, it would be interesting to see where you believe I went wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I would love to debate you on the merits of one form of Christian faith vs. another, but I'm not at liberty to "hoard the board" as it were. Nor, would I wish to subject you to being overwhelmed upon. I think you see the wisdom of my thought here.

You make a good point; I would probably have a tough time answering you as well as others in the limited amount of time I have.

Take care Quahom1,
TJ

17th Angel · 10-25-2006, 12:31 PM

Heh, I love how Terrance starts all these type of topics he knows full well will cause christians to argue among each other than after a few posts he dissapears.... Strange that eh.

Dor · 10-25-2006, 12:55 PM

Actually Terrence did not have a choice in the matter or he would still be here. Well he had a choice in a way.

17th Angel · 10-25-2006, 01:10 PM

Oh he was banned? Heh, well good to see somone has their eyes open then.

Dor · 10-25-2006, 01:42 PM

Yep he made people feel uncomfortable. Funny how the truth hurts sometimes.

17th Angel · 10-25-2006, 01:46 PM

The truth? You mean, him hitting a nerve? Or am I confused here lol.

Dor · 10-25-2006, 01:52 PM

Yep. Some people tend to not like hearing anything about the angry, judgemental, wrathful side of God and want to just concentrate on the love and good side.
I personally want to know about all sides and all aspects. There is a reason the Bible shows up God's anger and wrath and judgement.

Heck, I am quite sure there are a few people here just hoping my fundamentalist butt will go off on a tangent one day and get banned.