Jesus Christ, he will return?

[Dor]

Originally Posted by inhumility

I respect your religion.
For obvious reasons JesusYeshuaIssa won't return literally and physically in this world. The Jews are already waiting for his first coming, the Christians would be waiting for his second coming , they could wait till eternity nevermind, but noone would come according to their perceptions. The only reason is they have misunderstood their scriptures.Please don't mind.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnosticsThe West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

Ok sorry Inhumility you are wrong.
Jesus will return and Mohammad and everything that came from HIM has nothing to do with Christ.

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by pattimax

What do you consider authentic?

Starting with this a clue...

"Imitation destroys the foundation of religion, extinguishes the spirituality of the human world, transforms heavenly illumination into darkness and deprives man of the knowledge of God. It is the cause of the victory of materialism and infidelity over religion; it is the denial of Divinity and the law of revelation; it refuses Prophethood and rejects the Kingdom of God. When materialists subject imitations to the intellectual analysis of reason, they find them to be mere superstitions; therefore, they deny religion."

I would then consider the authentic effort to be one's own of heart and mind - of sincerity and honesty, To be wary of what others say - me or you or another - and instead keep to what experience and faith and insight reveal. As God sees our effort, He will not let us struggle in vain.

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by Dor

Do not feel bad that is a common misconception.

Thanks, I guess I'm off the hook then. And it just took your forgiveness!

Originally Posted by Dor

One path leads to heaven, all other paths lead away according to the little Bible I have.

I'm saying there is only one path. All other "paths" are in fact at best misunderstandings. You think you are going somewhere but in fact you are not. But if you move with sincerity and honesty, keeping to pure intention and mindfulness, you will move and be guided and eventually make your way in the "right" direction even though the end of the path violate everything you started with.

:-)

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by smkolins

I'm saying there is only one path. All other "paths" are in fact at best misunderstandings. You think you are going somewhere but in fact you are not. But if you move with sincerity and honesty, keeping to pure intention and mindfulness, you will move and be guided and eventually make your way in the "right" direction even though the end of the path violate everything you started with.

:-)

Hi Stephen,

Good to see you back!

Do you mean that Christianity is at best a misunderstanding, rather than the one path?

Naturally I would disagree with that, but I'm looking for clarification in your statement.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by inhumility

Hi
I respect your religion.
For obvious reasons JesusYeshuaIssa won't return literally and physically in this world. The Jews are already waiting for his first coming, the Christians would be waiting for his second coming , they could wait till eternity nevermind, but noone would come according to their perceptions. The only reason is they have misunderstood their scriptures.Please don't mind.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnosticsThe West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

Inhumility, it appears that it is you who has misunderstood the Bible and Christianity.

I'm also wondering why it would be that Ahmadism rejects Baha'u'llah, while accepting other religions. Not that this is a good topic for the Christianity forum, but perhaps you and Stephen (SMkolins) should start a thread on that in the Baha'i forum. It seems you have a lot more in common with each other than with Christianity.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by smkolins

Starting with this a clue...

"Imitation destroys the foundation of religion, extinguishes the spirituality of the human world, transforms heavenly illumination into darkness and deprives man of the knowledge of God. It is the cause of the victory of materialism and infidelity over religion; it is the denial of Divinity and the law of revelation; it refuses Prophethood and rejects the Kingdom of God. When materialists subject imitations to the intellectual analysis of reason, they find them to be mere superstitions; therefore, they deny religion."

I would then consider the authentic effort to be one's own of heart and mind - of sincerity and honesty, To be wary of what others say - me or you or another - and instead keep to what experience and faith and insight reveal. As God sees our effort, He will not let us struggle in vain.

A person is deceived by thinking that all paths are one, it can “extinguish the spirituality of the human world, transform heavenly illumination into darkness and deprive man of the knowledge of God.” And yes, there are many paths and all but one reject the Kingdom of God. When God’s son is denied, religion itself is denied.

Being conscious of your behavior toward others and yourself is very important, but if your faith is not in Jesus Christ, you will struggle in vain. Experience, faith, and insight have revealed this to me.

[pattimax]

BTW- Experience, faith, and insight are in the bible.

[Penguin]

Another question which perhaps people have forgotten about here is that when Jesus has his second coming will he have to die for all our sins once again and go through the same ordeal as before? If history repeats itself, and if you want to look at the future you look at the past right? He had to carry our sins before so why not again?

My thoughts.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Another question which perhaps people have forgotten about here is that when Jesus has his second coming will he have to die for all our sins once again and go through the same ordeal as before? If history repeats itself, and if you want to look at the future you look at the past right? He had to carry our sins before so why not again?

My thoughts.

No, Jesus died once for all according to Hebrews 9:27:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

When Jesus comes again, He will not be coming as a humble servant, but in all His Power and Glory:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." - Matthew 24:30

A picture of His coming as a conquering King is found in Revelation 19:

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." - Revelation 19:11-16

"Oh when the saints, go marching in, oh when the saints go marching in, O Lord, I want to be in that number..." (I surely don't want to be on the other side)

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Do you mean that Christianity is at best a misunderstanding, rather than the one path?

Hi Lunamoth,

Why do we have to keep covering this ground?

No it doesn't mean that Christianity is at best a misunderstanding. It means that Christianity's goal is to lead you towards God and as soon as it has done it's job then, as the goal is God, Christianity is not important and then to hold to Christianity rather than to God is to misunderstand the path, what Christianity is for.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by smkolins

Hi Lunamoth,

Why do we have to keep covering this ground?

Have we covered this ground before?

No it doesn't mean that Christianity is at best a misunderstanding. It means that Christianity's goal is to lead you towards God and as soon as it has done it's job then, as the goal is God, Christianity is not important and then to hold to Christianity rather than to God is to misunderstand the path, what Christianity is for.

Then would you also say that the Baha'i Faith's goal is to lead one toward God and as soon as one finds God, the Baha'i Faith is not important? And to then hold to the Baha'i Faith rather than to God is to misunderstand the path, what the Baha'i Faith is for?

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Have we covered this ground before?



Then would you also say that the Baha'i Faith's goal is to lead one toward God and as soon as one finds God, the Baha'i Faith is not important? And to then hold to the Baha'i Faith rather than to God is to misunderstand the path, what the Baha'i Faith is for?

More so - I would say there are measurable markers when a religion has begun to fail to lead the larger percent of its population - when it has generally begun to fail to lead people towards God and is more interested in itself than in God. One simple way I think most can agree with is when religion leads to extremists who kill because it is viewed as service to the religion. Sure that would be one measure of when a religion is not leading people towards God.

What do you think?

Let me clarify - when this happens it is not the original teachings or Revelation that have become lost as much as it is what we are making of those teachings. Either by lack of faith or overlays of interpretation or simply failing to follow the guidance given.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by smkolins

More so - I would say there are measurable markers when a religion has begun to fail to lead the larger percent of its population - when it has generally begun to fail to lead people towards God and is more interested in itself than in God. One simple way I think most can agree with is when religion leads to extremists who kill because it is viewed as service to the religion. Sure that would be one measure of when a religion is not leading people towards God.

What do you think?

Let me clarify - when this happens it is not the original teachings or Revelation that have become lost as much as it is what we are making of those teachings. Either by lack of faith or overlays of interpretation or simply failing to follow the guidance given.

I would say that the Baha'i Faith lead me back to God and then when it was no longer leading me to God, it was better for me to leave it behind.

I would also say that one should not judge Christianity by the extremists who kill any more than one should judge the Baha'i Faith by the early Babi followers who in their misplaced zeal plotted against the Shah.

Every religion is full of fallible and imperfect people. I think it is an unfair charge to say that Christianity is more interested in itself than in leading people to God.

What I make of the Gospel is that God wants us to love God and each other as He loves us.

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I would say that the Baha'i Faith lead me back to God and then when it was no longer leading me to God, it was better for me to leave it behind.

I would also say that one should not judge Christianity by the extremists who kill any more than one should judge the Baha'i Faith by the early Babi followers who in their misplaced zeal plotted against the Shah.

Every religion is full of fallible and imperfect people. I think it is an unfair charge to say that Christianity is more interested in itself than in leading people to God.

What I make of the Gospel is that God wants us to love God and each other as He loves us.

Certainly there will always be individuals who act in the name of a religion who utterly fail to represent any of its tenants. But there are larger scale issues - when many wars are fought, when institutions of social prominence who are allied to a religion but are in fact vicious machines of oppression and injustice, the very leaders of religion are themselves engaged in compromising the virtues of honesty and sincerity their religion calls upon, when this is all not just a pattern of a few but of the many, when factions develop in the religion so deeply that they call eachother unbeleiver (not just believing differently but unbeliever, then perhaps that religion is a cause of God looking to guide mankind again. This could be Christianity or the Baha'i Faith or Islam or Buddhism or any religion - yes the original teachings are themselves sound, but mankind has turned their backs on the religion.

What will turn them back?

When will they listen and hear?

This isn't just wishful thinking or pining - this is the promise of His return, is it not?

[Postmaster]

This could be Christianity or the Baha'i Faith or Islam or Buddhism or any religion - yes the original teachings are themselves sound, but mankind has turned their backs on the religion.

I agree with this statement.