Jesus Christ, he will return?

[Postmaster]

I see... Certainly got me thinking.

But the Jewish faith has been and is still waiting for there prophet to be sent by God.. Its been a very long time, wouldn't you agree?

[Sacredstar]

Dear BB

I speak not of the divinity of Jesus I speak of GOD and GOD does not care what we call him as long as we get the job done. To me Jesus is Jesus but GOD is GOD they are different to me and GOD manifests through us all when we allow it to be. Yes GOD as sent his messengers, teachers and prophets to help guide humanity in all religions and cultures but to me the source from whence they came is the same. From my own perspective one of the problems down the ages is that man finds it hard to give the simple words received, somehow they feel they need to elaborate and extend the message for more understanding and I see this happens in modern day. But yet GOD as shared with me that it is the message that is important not the messenger and to be true to GOD it is important that we only share the words given and let others interpret as they wish. Not sure why I am writing this but I am sure you will understand. I feel that many prophets have added their own take on the message which is where many differences come in, because man's consciousness can be tainted and clouded with their own prejudice and issues, hence the importance of having a clear lens of conciousness to ensure that clarity is assured. So when all religions let go of their attachments then all can become one with GOD.

Dear Ciel

Yes i agree, this is GOD's wish no division, no separation, all in oneness with the source and the source of all creation. I thought this message was beautiful and I keep it close to my heart, its intent is for all all humanity, so Ciel may your light continue to shine brightly and emanate throughout the universe.

"You are the light of the world,
the flame of love that purifies
whatever stands in the way
of complete oneness with GOD"

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

So ancient Hebrew Scriptures prophesied Jesus Christ's coming. The bible (New Testament) also originally Hebrew and Greek, Latin scripture, states that Jesus will return. Now we know that the 3 wise men predicted Jesus's coming, now I have heard the 3 wise men, originated from Iran, I have heard that they have originated from Ethiopia and even claims that they came from as far as Tibet.

Ok, it is said that history repeats itself. But I have heard something which I would agree with more, they say that history rhymes. The last time Jesus came, the romans were in the Middle East. Now what we have is the USA is in the Middle East. If I had to pick a place for the return of Jesus I would say, the Middle East once again, maybe even Iran, it seems to me only Iran is untouched by western domination in this world. Maybe it’s too soon for Jesus to revisit us? What do people think? Is there going to be an other religious movement? The bible also talks about the end to the world, we can all see what happening to the weather.. Maybe this seems to be a good time, for his return? It should be possible to predict him coming, after all the 3 wise men did. Any wise men here?

Hello Postmaster,

Hmmm, unless you have decided to ignore John's Book of Revelations, Jesus' return seems quite clear. Armageddon, or "Harmageddon" literally means "mountain of Megiddo." "More battles, have been fought on the plain of Megiddo than on any other in the world." Here Barak overcame the Canaanites (Judges 4:15). Here Gideon defeated the Midianites (Judges 7). Here Saul was defeated by the Philistines. Here Ahaziah died, and here Pharaoh-Necho overthrew Josiah. Thus Megiddo had become fixed in the Hebrew mind as a place of deadly combat. It therefore fitly symbolizes the worldwide conflict between evil and righteousness.

To predict the coming of the Lord, would amount to trying to be a fortune teller. In fact the Lord says do not worry about it. He is specific. He also states specifically that no one knows the time, but the Father (Don't know about you, but I'm not up to asking the Father for a clue). The three "wise men" were actually called astrologers. in the old languages, or sages. Where they came from doesn't seem as important as what they did, or how long they took to do it (several years of traveling and searching I believe). When they found the child, he was already two years of age (not an infant in a manger). Hence one reason why Herod allegedly ordered all male children under the age of two killed).

The last time Jesus came, the Romans did not believe in Him. Much of America does. Rome wanted its "charge" to obey Ceasar. Do you really think the US wants the Middle East to "Obey" Bush?

Rome was a government of conquest for most of its existence. The United States has been a government of isolationists for most of its existence...

Iranians are not Arabs, they are Persians. Historically, Arabs and Hebrews (now Jews/Israelis) are half brothers. Therein lies the battle. The rest of us are as Dauer said "Ger" (strangers). Gog and Magog are a troubling point, as is the "massive Army from the East" crossing the Tigris river, and damming up the Euphrates.

Even the Qu'ran warns that 2/3rds of the people will die, even the faithful (it is talking about the Faithful Muslims, the righteous ones).

A thousand years ago, the Native Americans spoke of the weather going crazy then. There were no "white men", read that as Indo-European people, living in the United States (as far as we know for certain). Well maybe, if you think that Vikings touched down here circa 1300 AD (ACe).

Hah! I'm wise enough to know not to take that bet my friend. I can't even predict whether I live for another 24 hours, let alone the coming of the Lord.

However, by faith, I accept that He will physically return.

v/r

Q

[didymus]

To all on this thread. I go with sacredstar, the christ truth is being revealed to all. Remember Christ is not Jesus' last name, the annointed one, the messiah. There will and probably already has emerged a christ figure in some region of the world. If you compare us to the roman empire, jesus lived and died and many were oblivious to it. Not everyone heard and saw him when this happened. Some found out much later.

I read a great book by emmit fox who stated that the reason christ hasn't returned is because everyone is waiting for the physical manifestation. If we all searched ourselves for that truth we could fulfill the christ purpose for mankind. He also viewed the second coming as one who embraces jesus' teachings and is thus transformed by them. They have experienced the second coming.

So will he ome back in a cloud as the bible said? I don't know. God just may surprise us. Peace

[mee]

Jesus will not come in the flesh again.

Return

of Christ

Definition: Before leaving the earth, Jesus Christ promised to return. Thrilling events in connection with God’s Kingdom are associated with that promise. It should be noted that there is a difference between coming and presence. Thus, while a person’s coming (associated with his arrival or return) occurs at a given time, his presence may thereafter extend over a period of years. In the Bible the Greek word er´kho·mai (meaning "to come") is also used with reference to Jesus’ directing his attention to an important task at a specific time during his presence, namely, to his work as Jehovah’s executioner at the war of the great day of God the Almighty.
At Matthew 24:37 the Greek word pa·rou·si´a is used. Literally it means a "being alongside." Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford, 1968) gives "presence, of persons," as its first definition of pa·rou·si´a. The sense of the word is clearly indicated at Philippians 2:12, where Paul contrasts his presence (pa·rou·si´a) with his absence (a·pou·si´a). On the other hand, in Matthew 24:30, which tells of the "Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" as Jehovah’s executioner at the war of Armageddon, the Greek word er·kho´me·non is used. Some translators use ‘coming’ for both Greek words, but those that are more careful convey the difference between the two

[didymus]

I tend to belive this also, that Christ will not return in the flesh. Christ returns daily, to those who believe in him. Christ is present daily for those that believe in him.

[mee]

Do

the events associated with Christ’s presence take place in a very brief time or over a period of years?

Matt. 24:37-39: "Just as the days of Noah were, so the presence ["coming," RS, TEV; "presence," Yg, Ro, ED; Greek, pa·rou·si´a] of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be." (The events of "the days of Noah" that are described here took place over a period of many years. Jesus compared his presence with what occurred back then.)

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Do

the events associated with Christ’s presence take place in a very brief time or over a period of years?

Matt. 24:37-39: "Just as the days of Noah were, so the presence ["coming," RS, TEV; "presence," Yg, Ro, ED; Greek, pa·rou·si´a] of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be." (The events of "the days of Noah" that are described here took place over a period of many years. Jesus compared his presence with what occurred back then.)

According to scripture...one day.

v/r

Q

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

...Ok, it is said that history repeats itself...

Hi Postmaster,

This is a topic I have been thinking about recently...
All religious scriptures describe the event surrounding the coming of the promised messiah/prophet as gloriously extravagant displays of what would be obvious to all, but yet the reality is that no prophet has been accompanied by these literal events. The glory described in the scriptures is of a spiritual nature, only those with spiritual eyes/insight are able to recognize them in the garment of a humble servant.

What if, our ancestors were the recipients of the second coming? What if they failed to recognize Him? What if they did everything they could to extinguish His Faith? How would you know? Judaism is still waiting for His first coming.
1844 is known to history as the year of the Great Disappointment. Expectation was high among followers of all religions in the early 1800's, that the One foretold in their scriptures was about to arrive. Thousands of people sold all of their belongings and waited on hilltops (in New England) for the glorious displays of scriptural reference. Dates were revised, again and again, culminating in 1844. Only to be disappointed, hence the name.

what if, events were unfolding half way around the world, just like they did 2000 years ago, while people were expecting one thing, God was doing what He does best.

On May 24, 1844. William Morse sent the first telegraph message "What hath God wrought?" from the old Supreme Court chamber in the United States Capitol to his partner in Baltimore.

If God is consistent, and I believe He is, it may be prudent to look with an open mind to recent history and ask God to grant us spiritual eyes/insight to assist us in our search. "ask and ye shall receive"

I'm aware that the NT says that "all eyes shall see him", but if that is to be a literal fulfillment, then why does it also say "unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time." ? If all eyes shall see him, why would we have to look? On the surface this appears to be a contradiction, how can they both be true? Maybe the eyes in this statement is referring to those with spiritual eyes. (there are numerous references to spiritual eyes, "he that has eyes and cannot see" etc.) the second verse seems to be clear that if we want to see him, we have to look for him. It's our choice, we can take a chance and wait and watch, or we can be safe and make an effort to seek him, wherever that may lead. That way, even if all eyes do see him literally, the time we spend on our quest will be strengthening our own personal relationship with God. And that is always a good thing.

Have a wonderful day!

Loving Greetings, Amy

[Faithfulservant]

If you believe in the resurrection than you have to believe He will come in the flesh...because He is now in the flesh.. If you believe that He returns to rule His kingdom on earth than you have to believe that it will be in the flesh because the earth is still a physical place. If you do not believe these things than you can not be reading the bible and believing it as the Word of God.

[didymus]

Faithful, if you believe that Jesus will return in the flesh, how then will he come? Will he be born of woman again, grow up and begin to preach? Will he suddenly appear in a person already alive and here on earth or do you see him as coming out of the sky in flesh form?

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by didymus

Faithful, if you believe that Jesus will return in the flesh, how then will he come? Will he be born of woman again, grow up and begin to preach? Will he suddenly appear in a person already alive and here on earth or do you see him as coming out of the sky in flesh form?

He is already in the flesh.. He was in the flesh when he ascended into heaven after his resurrection in His new body. I cannot imagine how glorious His coming will be so I imagine it will be just like the bible says

Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

Zech 14:4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And theMount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.* 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

He is already in the flesh.. He was in the flesh when he ascended into heaven after his resurrection in His new body. I cannot imagine how glorious His coming will be so I imagine it will be just like the bible says



Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

it all looks good to me faithful, except it only works for people who believe in the whole bible. LOL
yes we do get flesh bodies, but they are immortal bodies just like Jesus...walk through walls. YIPPEEE

[didymus]

Well that will be quite the event. I keep an open mind and will never say that it can't be so. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. I do beleive though that that prophecy is loaded with symbolism, i don't think that someone is literally going to appear on a white horse with flaming eyes and a sword in their mouth. we need to look at what the white horse represent, the sword of truth etc.

[Faithfulservant]

The rule of literalism.

The Bible is to be taken literally unless it is using symbols or a figure of speech.

Figures of speech

A figure of speech is an expression implying an idea other than what is actually stated. Five kinds of figurative language are prevalent in Scripture.

1. Metaphor. The most common kind of figure in Scripture is the metaphor, backbone of Hebrew poetry. No less than six metaphors occur in a single verse (Psa., 18:2). A metaphor speaks of an equivalence when there is no more than a resemblance. God is not a high tower; He merely in some ways resembles one.
2. Metonymy. Metonymy is the substitution of a related concept for the intended concept. We find examples in 1 Thessalonians 5:19 ("the Spirit" is substituted for His activity or manifestations), Isaiah 22:22 ("key" replaces the broader idea of authority), and Luke 16:29 (Moses and the prophets stand in place of their writings). In all these cases, the literal meaning is false or impossible.
3. Synecdoche. Synecdoche is another kind of substitution—in this case, a part for the whole or a whole for the part, as when Jesus says, "The Son of man hath not where to lay his head" (Matt. 8:20). For other examples, see Judges 12:7; and Acts 27:37.
4. Ellipsis. An ellipsis is an abbreviated expression that requires the reader to supply the missing words. Taken literally, an ellipsis might be nonsensical. In 1 Corinthians 3:2, for instance, the writer does not mean that he refrained from giving them meat to drink. Of similar nature are the expressions we find in Luke 1:64 and Psalm 74:7 (in the latter case, the translators supplied the omitted words).
5. Hyperbole. Hyperbole is rhetorical overstatement, a fairly common device in the Bible (Gen. 22:17; Deut. 1:28; 2 Chron. 28:4; S. of S. 4:4).

Recognizing figures of speech

How can we tell when Scripture is using a figure of speech? Generally, an expression should be taken figuratively if it falls in one of three categories.

1. The literal meaning is impossible. A simple example appears in Psalm 5:9. A throat cannot be a sepulchre.
2. The literal meaning is possible, but probably never true. We find a figure of this type in Psalm 25:15. It is not impossible that my feet would, under peculiar circumstances, become entangled in a net and that the Lord would deliver me from it. But the psalmist is not talking about a real net. He is referring to any trap set by an enemy.
3. The literal meaning is trivial. A good example is the metaphor in Isaiah 55:1-2. There is no logical difficulty in supposing that the prophet is calling people to buy food and drink, but to view the passage in this way trivializes it and misses the point. The prophet has a spiritual message here. He wants us to forsake worldly things for the eternal things that yield true satisfaction.

Symbolism

Symbolism presents somewhat thornier problems. Probably the clearest example of symbolism in Scripture is the mysterious drama in Revelation 12:1-6. Another clear example is the Parable of the Sower (Matt. 13:1-9, 18-23). From examination of these and other cases, we arrive at some principles governing Biblical symbolism.

1. When the Bible uses symbolism, it alerts the reader to the nature of what he is reading. Jesus Himself gives a full explanation of the Parable of the Sower. From His treatment of this parable, we infer that we can treat other parables in the same manner. Revelation 12 begins by identifying the woman clothed with the sun as "a great wonder in heaven." "Wonder" is simply the word "sign," or "symbol."
2. In Biblical symbolism, each element corresponds to something real. In the Parable of the Sower, everything Jesus says has a meaning. There is no meaningless detail. Likewise in the pageant of Revelation 12, the woman, the dragon, the stars, the deeds of the actors—all have prophetic significance.
3. The Bible interprets its own symbolism. Who is the woman clothed with the sun? Her setting in the midst of the sun, the moon, and twelve stars recalls the dream of Joseph (Gen. 37:9-10), which used similar imagery to signify the family of Jacob. We conclude that the woman is Israel. Who is the dragon? The Book of Revelation says he is Satan (Rev. 20:2).
4. Biblical symbols are always appropriate. We said earlier that leaven represents sin. Consider what leaven is. The chemical reactions that cause a lump of dough to rise are the work of minute vegetable organisms called yeast, a type of fungus. A distinctive property of all fungi is their lack of chlorophyll. As nongreen plants, they are incapable of making their own food. They must draw nourishment from other organisms, whether living or dead. Yeast is a fungus that, in feeding itself, converts bread sugars into alcohol (which disappears during baking) and carbon dioxide, a gas. Notice that the leavening effect of the yeast depends on its destruction of a nourishing and flavorful food substance. As an agent of destruction and decay, leaven is a fitting symbol for something evil.

Violations

The last rule is an effective weapon against many false interpretations. Leading evangelicals scholars treat large portions of the Bible as mere metaphor or symbolism. They especially resist a literal interpretation of the creation account in Genesis, or of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. But if we use the criteria already stated, we find that metaphorical and symbolic interpretations do not fit.

1. We cannot conclude that they are metaphorical unless their literal sense is impossible, untrue, or trivial. But God could, if He wanted, create the world in six days. He could build a city out of gold. The majority of believing Christians have never found any difficulty in the literal sense of these disputed passages.
2. We cannot conclude that they are symbolic unless we find meaning in the details. But virtually none of the details in the creation account have meaning if it is not literally true. It is just a nice story with hardly any connections to fact. Likewise for Bible prophecy. Either it is literally true, or it has almost no content with specific meaning.

Christ, the glorious Head of the church, is described as on a white horse, the emblem of justice and holiness. He has many crowns, for he is King of kings, and Lord of lords. He is arrayed in a vesture dipped in his own blood, by which he purchased his power as Mediator; and in the blood of his enemies, over whom he always prevails. His name is "The Word of God;" a name none fully knows but himself; only this we know, that this Word was God manifest in the flesh; but his perfections cannot be fully understood by any creature. Angels and saints follow, and are like Christ in their armour of purity and righteousness. The threatenings of the written word he is going to execute on his enemies. The ensigns of his authority are his name; asserting his authority and power, warning the most powerful princes to submit, or they must fall before him. The powers of earth and hell make their utmost effort. These verses declare important events, foretold by the prophets. These persons were not excused because they did what their leaders bade them. How vain will be the plea of many sinners at the great day! We followed our guides; we did as we saw others do! God has given a rule to walk by, in his word; neither the example of the most, nor of the chief, must influence us contrary thereto: if we do as the most do, we must go where the most go, even into the burning lake.

The great thing about Gods mastermind.. the bible is that you can find verses for everything else somewhere in the bible...might I also remind you that the creation of the universe was spoken into existance which shows how physical the spoken Word of God is.

Eph 6:17 Take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is God's word.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We know white symbolizes holiness and righteousness and Christ leading his army in on a white horse is not so far fetched... but if you want to look at what the bible says about horses let me list some verses for you to look at....

Job 39:19-25, Jer 4:13, Isa 5:28, Jer 8:16, Psalms 33:17, Prov 21:31, Zech 14:20, Jer 46:4, Zech 1:8, 2 Kings 23:11, Rev 6:2-8, 9:17,19:11-21


His eyes were as a flame of fire…
Which denotes the perspicuity and penetration of them, the omniscience of Christ to look into and discover the secret machinations, schemes, and devices of his enemies against his people, and his exercise of it in favour of them, his eyes, like a flame of fire, running to and fro on their behalf; and also this may signify the fierceness of his anger against the enemies of his people, the eyes of his glory being provoked by their cruelty and wickedness; and likewise the suddenness of their destruction, and the inevitableness of it.

Rev 1:14 His head and hair were white like wool--white as snow, His eyes like a fiery flame,

Rev 2:18 "To the angel of the church in Thyatira write: "The Son of God, the One whose eyes are like a fiery flame, and whose feet are like fine bronze says:

Its all in the bible.. theres no need to second guess or take anyone elses word for it. If you truly wanted to know you would open the pages and begin to read it in faith rather than in criticism looking to find falseness or inaccuracy. The bible will meet any test given but you have to know the bible and not just parts of it.