Jesus Christ, he will return?

[Cage]

I think The book of Revelations is, or can be a dangerous book. Too many view it, and embrace a spirit of destruction, imo. I simply choose to NOT read it until I am comfortable enough in the Spirit to bear it, or what many think it to mean.

I am not ready for that book, and I may not ever be, so for the time being, I choose to take NOTHING from it, lol! You can't add, or take from it, if you simply leave it be, can you? John had his revelation, as did Peter. Although Peters was not included in the Bible...Perhaps I will have my own through Gods Spirit, and not ever need The Revelation of John to guide me?


Love,

[JosephM]

Cage,

I think you make a good point. After all, the message Jesus had is 'good news' not bad. And let me clarify that by saying good news for believers. It is always wise to wait on God for anything such as those things in that book. Besides, you already have all you need to allow God to transform you into the image of Christ.

Best Wishes,
JM

[Cage]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Cage,

I think you make a good point. After all, the message Jesus had is 'good news' not bad. And let me clarify that by saying good news for believers. It is always wise to wait on God for anything such as those things in that book. Besides, you already have all you need to allow God to transform you into the image of Christ.

Best Wishes,
JM

I found that statement a bit broad, Joseph...Believers in what? There are so many varying beliefs, what do you think 'true' believing entails, or does one only need to belive the Spirit in which Jesus came?

Just asking for clarification...


Love,

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Cage

I found that statement a bit broad, Joseph...Believers in what? There are so many varying beliefs, what do you think 'true' believing entails, or does one only need to belive the Spirit in which Jesus came?

Just asking for clarification...


Love,

Hi Cage,
Yes, it was purposely left broad but meant believers in his message. It was also NOT to be taken as bad news for them who as yet feel no drawing from God. But as far as agreement in what his real message was I will leave that alone. If you get the right message in my view, it will be 'good news' filled with love, peace and joy in spite of circumstances. If you get something different, it will be riddled with strife, condemnation, hate and self-righteousness, and an attitude of a 'them' and an 'us' as in absence of a sense of unity with all. Just my two cents.

Peace,
JM

[Cage]

I understand, man...

[mee]

Originally Posted by Cage

mee, why do you think he will come in Spirit? I'm likely to agree, but there is much to suggest otherwise in the Bible if I'm not mis understanding it.

Although, Revelations is too heavy a book for me at the moment, and I don't read it. My only insight comes from others who believe in an apocolyptic return, and from those who don't.

I personally think he comes in Spirit and not as actual lightning from the east, or upon a literal horse while wearing a crown. But this where I get confused, how are we to breakdown the anologies, and abstract vagueness of some scripture?

His return is clouded in mystery...


Love,

Conditions accompanying his presence. The book of Revelation presents in symbolic expression much information relating to Christ’s presence and his manifestation and revelation. The symbolic picture of the crowned rider on the white horse depicted in Revelation 6:1, 2 corresponds to that of the rider of Revelation 19:11-16, who is the "King of kings and Lord of lords," Christ Jesus. Revelation chapter 6 shows that when Christ rides forth as conquering King he does not immediately bring about removal of wickedness from the earth, but rather, his ride is accompanied by war that takes "peace away from the earth," as well as by food scarcity and deadly plague. (Re 6:3-8) This, in turn, parallels features found in Christ’s prophecy at Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. It therefore appears that Jesus’ prophecy found in the Gospel accounts, which clearly involves the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple (occurring in 70 C.E.), also has an application to the time of Christ’s presence, thereby supplying a "sign" that allows for determining when that presence is taking place and when "deliverance is getting near."—Mt 24:3, 32, 33; Lu 21:28-31we are now going through the presence or parousia of christ in kingdom power . bible prophecy and chronology are now well along and Jesus is now a reigning king and the ride goes on. if people are waiting for Jesus to come back to earth in the flesh they will miss Jesus, because his presence in kingdom power has been with us since he was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment . and according to bible prophecy and chronology Jesus has been in kingdom power since 1914. yes its all happening in these the last days. but many take no note , just like in noahs day ,so it is the same to day ,...............
they take no note of the presence of the son of man.

[mee]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Greetings Cage and welcome back,
Good job Mee,
Acts 1:9-11
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. [10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The word used for gazing was emblepo which is more a discerning than seeing. It is the same greek word used in John 1:36
And looking (emblepo) upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
You see John didn't see the lamb of God with his natural eyes, he discerned with his spiritual eyes. No one else saw a lamb of God except John. The same in Acts chapter 1 above.

Think about it. The angels said why do you stand gazing up into heaven this same Jesus shall come in like manner. There was no need for them to stand there gazing. They could see him come in like manner anywhere anytime they got back into the spirit. His second coming is not physical. Jesus the man said he finished the work that he was given. Christ the spirit man is the hope of our glory. This is his mystery that is still hid from some...
Col. 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

That is your hope in his coming... that Christ be formed in you.

Love in Christ,
JM

yes i agree that it is a discerning with the minds eye,just as we say ....................(oh yes now i understand what it is all about.) and the presence (parousia) of christ is invisible. but i think that John did see Jesus , and he discerned and recognized him as the lamb of God
Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples, 36 and as he looked at Jesus walking he said: "See, the Lamb of God!" 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 38 Then Jesus turned and, getting a view of them following, he said to them: "What are YOU looking for?" They said to him: "Rabbi, (which means, when translated, Teacher,) where are you staying?" 39 He said to them: "Come, and YOU will see." Accordingly they went and saw where he was staying, and they stayed with him that day; it was about the tenth hour.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by mee

yes i agree that it is a discerning with the minds eye,just as we say ....................(oh yes now i understand what it is all about.) and the presence (parousia) of christ is invisible. but i think that John did see Jesus , and he discerned and recognized him as the lamb of God
Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples, 36 and as he looked at Jesus walking he said: "See, the Lamb of God!" 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 38 Then Jesus turned and, getting a view of them following, he said to them: "What are YOU looking for?" They said to him: "Rabbi, (which means, when translated, Teacher,) where are you staying?" 39 He said to them: "Come, and YOU will see." Accordingly they went and saw where he was staying, and they stayed with him that day; it was about the tenth hour.

Yes Mee, He did see Jesus with his eyes but he did not see the 'lamb of God' with his physical eyes. As you say he discerned that. That is my point and it is that same discernment that sees Christ and his coming or presence in us.

Love in Christ,
JM

[mee]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Yes Mee, He did see Jesus with his eyes but he did not see the 'lamb of God' with his physical eyes. As you say he discerned that. That is my point and it is that same discernment that sees Christ and his coming or presence in us.

Love in Christ,
JM

seeing with the minds eye means understanding something, and when the wicked are cutt-off from everlasting life in a paradise earth , they will understand why Jesus is cutting them off .
Jesus spoke of the gathering of sheep. Among other things, he said: "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left." In this parable, Jesus showed that those thus given attention by the King would be judged on the basis of how they dealt with his "brothers." (Matthew 25:31-46) Who are these brothers? They are spirit-begotten Christians who are therefore "God’s sons." Jesus is God’s firstborn Son. Hence, they are Christ’s brothers. They are "the slaves of our God" mentioned at Revelation 7:3, the ones chosen from among humankind to share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom.—Romans 8:14-17.
The way in which other humans deal with these heirs of the Kingdom is of vital importance. Do we view them as Jesus Christ does and as Jehovah does? (Matthew 24:45-47; 2 Thessalonians 2:13) A person’s attitude toward these anointed ones reflects their attitude toward Jesus Christ himself and toward his Father, the Universal Sovereign.—Matthew 10:40; 25:34-46.
the "sheep" in this parable are ones who would have set before them the prospect of perfect life on earth.this parable must have application when Christ is on his throne, so how we treat christs brothers, and also if we help them out,has a bearing on how Jesus judges us , this helping out christs brothers is not only in a phyisical way, but also helping them to get the Goodnews of the kingdom preached in all the earth. matthew 24;14.......... helping christs brothers leads to everlasting life. so i am hoping to be a sheep and not a goat. goats are known to be rebellious , but sheep follow Jesus and the channel that Jesus is useing matthew 24;45-47

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Mee

helping christs brothers leads to everlasting life. so i am hoping to be a sheep and not a goat. goats are known to be rebellious , but sheep follow Jesus and the channel that Jesus is useing matthew 24;45-47

Mee,

You are definitely not a goat! But then neither do you appear as a sheep to me. More of a relentless roaring Lion, I would think. Hope you have a sense of humor.

Love in Christ,
JM

[Cage]

mee, who will set up his kingdom on earth, then? It is obvious we are seperated, but will the goats, those who rebell against the Spirit of Christ, be elliminated, or will they too come into the knowledge and understanding of God's will? I thought I read somewhere that Jesus was not willing for any to perish...does this mean all will come to him in the end?

I agree with many of your views, mee. I think earth is a paradise to come, and already is to a degree. I also view Jesus as being with us already in the now. I look for no signs, but people all over the world are making great strides in Spirit, while others resist with all thier might it seems.

I always go back to the Lords prayer:

"Thy kingdom come
thy will be done
on earth
as it is in heaven"

My favorite part of that prayer by far...


Love,

[JosephM]

Hi Cage,
Here is another writing that points to what you say....
Ephes. 1:9-10
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: [10] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Also.... Who can forever resist the will of God? God knows that in the fulness of times all will return to him. He is the one who draws and He is the one that is well able to in time allow circumstances to bring one to the point where one will say "Yes Lord". To think that it is ever to late in God's time is to think as a man.

Love in Christ,
JM

[mee]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Mee,

You are definitely not a goat! But then neither do you appear as a sheep to me. More of a relentless roaring Lion, I would think. Hope you have a sense of humor.

Love in Christ,
JM

LOL as long as i am not a rebellious goat , the sheep who listen to Jesus are following the channel that Jesus is using matthew 24;45-47 and if i eat up the good spiritual food that christs brothers are dishing out it will help me to keep on the right track and not get led along by rebellious goats who do it there own way. and yes as you say ,my roar is hopefully very loud and it is louder still when it is being done all over the world by a great crowd ,
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come..........
matthew 24;14 ........the ones doing this witness work are spoken of in revelation 7;9-10 and the roar that they are sending out is a roar of pure bible teachings , there is no roar of satanic teachings attached to these sheep they are all following Jesus christ himself.This GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM IS FOR A WITNESS it is not to make a mass conversion it is to be for a witness to put people on notice, and yes i am roaring about the kingdom and i am also roaring about what that heavenly kingdom will accomplish on the earth . it is the only way to peace on this earth .
Years before Jesus ever came to earth the prophet Daniel wrote about this kingdom of God and said: "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite." (Dan. 2:44) That is good news! "The God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin." The kingdom that Jesus was speaking about was this kingdom that the God of heaven would set up. "The kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people," but the inhabitants of the earth would come under its rule and be blessed by it. .................. but first they have to know about this wonderful kingdom , and it is all in the bible .
(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first....... so when the time comes for Jesus to put the goats on his left and the sheep on his right these ones will know why they are being classed as goats or sheep they will understand what it is all about. they will see with the eye of understanding.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Cage

mee, who will set up his kingdom on earth, then? It is obvious we are seperated, but will the goats, those who rebell against the Spirit of Christ, be elliminated, or will they too come into the knowledge and understanding of God's will? I thought I read somewhere that Jesus was not willing for any to perish...does this mean all will come to him in the end?

I agree with many of your views, mee. I think earth is a paradise to come, and already is to a degree. I also view Jesus as being with us already in the now. I look for no signs, but people all over the world are making great strides in Spirit, while others resist with all thier might it seems.

I always go back to the Lords prayer:

"Thy kingdom come
thy will be done
on earth
as it is in heaven"

My favorite part of that prayer by far...


Love,

this heavenly kingdom that will bring peace to the earth has been set up by God himself Daniel 2;44............. and Jesus is now a reigning king of this heavenly kingdom goverment .Daniel 7;13-14 it is all happening in this time of the end . how we respond to this kingdom and those who are
promoting this kingdom has a bearing on how we will be judged by Jesus .a rebellious goat ,or a sheep who follows its leader Jesus christ. yes as you say , God does not want any to be cutt-off from the blessings that the kingdom will accomplish on the earth .
Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 2 peter 3;9 yes as you mentioned the kingdom will bring true peace to this earth as the model prayer informs us. the heavens are now doing the will of God there are no opposers of the heavenly king up there, they have been cast out , as revelation 12;9 tells us .
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
and soon the ones on the earth who go against gods pupose will be cutt-off also. i am putting my vote on the side of the heavenly kingdom goverment to bring peace to the earth. Daniel 2;44 it is the only way to peace .

[smkolins]

THis thread has covered many topics indepth, but this theme was a bit brief I believe.... Just in case anyone wants this bit of extension.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hello Postmaster,
Armageddon, or "Harmageddon" literally means "mountain of Megiddo." "More battles, have been fought on the plain of Megiddo than on any other in the world." Here Barak overcame the Canaanites (Judges 4:15). Here Gideon defeated the Midianites (Judges 7). Here Saul was defeated by the Philistines. Here Ahaziah died, and here Pharaoh-Necho overthrew Josiah. Thus Megiddo had become fixed in the Hebrew mind as a place of deadly combat. It therefore fitly symbolizes the worldwide conflict between evil and righteousness.

Even in more modern times, like in 1918, WWI "The war to end all war". With importance to still unfolding events to the Bahá'ís.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

To predict the coming of the Lord, would amount to trying to be a fortune teller. In fact the Lord says do not worry about it. ...

And so it was, until the time came. There were anticipations in the west (1) and east (2).

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The last time Jesus came, the Romans did not believe in Him. Much of America does. Rome wanted its "charge" to obey Ceasar. Do you really think the US wants the Middle East to "Obey" Bush?

"If you aren't for us, you are against us." and note the double meaning - (satire)Sounds just like Jesus to me.(/satire)

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Rome was a government of conquest for most of its existence. The United States has been a government of isolationists for most of its existence...

O really? Ever hear of "Manifest Destiny" - consider many many acquisitions(3), (4) - even when Hawaii became a state(5)

Originally Posted by Quahom1

A thousand years ago, the Native Americans spoke of the weather going crazy then. There were no "white men", read that as Indo-European people, living in the United States (as far as we know for certain). Well maybe, if you think that Vikings touched down here circa 1300 AD (ACe).

Interesting you mention "white men" and Native Americans.... Have you heard of the Hopi prophecy of "white men"? Do you know the word for this "white men" - I've seen it spelled two ways - Bahana and Pahana(6). For an extended talk consider North American Indian Prophecies Talk...