Jesus is not God....part 2 - Page 16

Ahanu · 12-30-2007, 01:06 AM

. . .since most scholars agree that Titus was not written by Paul, and that he never mentioned that Christ was God, I might end up changing opinion! Scriptures can be used to support both arguments (

).

Quahom1 · 12-30-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahanu

. . .since most scholars agree that Titus was not written by Paul, and that he never mentioned that Christ was God, I might end up changing opinion! Scriptures can be used to support both arguments (

).

Lol, Genesis brings the three into light within a few paragraphs, and it is so simply laid out that the greatest scholars can't see it for the punctuation on the page...

You guys kill me...

mens_sana · 12-30-2007, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Lol, Genesis brings the three into light within a few paragraphs, and it is so simply laid out that the greatest scholars can't see it for the punctuation on the page...

You guys kill me...

My word search application must be defective, where does Genesis mention Jesus?

mens_sana · 12-30-2007, 04:20 AM

[quote=Quahom1;133097]Lol, Genesis brings the three into light within a few paragraphs, and it is so simply laid out that the greatest scholars can't see it for the punctuation on the page...

Ancient Hebrew was written with no punctuation. Perhaps you've not read much of what "the greatest scholars" have written.

Quahom1 · 12-30-2007, 04:49 AM

[quote=mens_sana;133110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Lol, Genesis brings the three into light within a few paragraphs, and it is so simply laid out that the greatest scholars can't see it for the punctuation on the page...

Ancient Hebrew was written with no punctuation. Perhaps you've not read much of what "the greatest scholars" have written.

Where doesn't it say "Jesus", and punctuation is there, it is in the way the verses are spoken...(duh)

Hard to see the forest, for the trees, and some will not confess to Him 'til on their knees...

Don't come into the the Christianity forum and try to blast the faith...it ain't gonna work. I believe, you do not. That is the end of it.

mens_sana · 12-30-2007, 08:28 PM

[quote=Quahom1;133117]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

Where doesn't it say "Jesus", and punctuation is there, it is in the way the verses are spoken...(duh) ... I believe, you do not. That is the end of it.

I asked where in Genesis does the text say Jesus? You have not answered the question. You only ducked, implying that "doctrine" can substitute for what the text does NOT say. I asked for exegesis. You gave me eisegesis. That tells me you have no respect for the text — and that you have no intention of examining your beliefs. While some RCC theologians can find Christ in Genesis, none of their text experts can find Jesus there. I think the New Jerome Biblical Commentary (imprimatur and all) would just scare you silly.

You also seem to think that the way the text is spoken hasn't changed since the time of Moses. Wheeeeuuuuu!

Quahom1 · 12-31-2007, 03:00 PM

[quote=mens_sana;133175]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I asked where in Genesis does the text say Jesus? You have not answered the question. You only ducked, implying that "doctrine" can substitute for what the text does NOT say. I asked for exegesis. You gave me eisegesis. That tells me you have no respect for the text — and that you have no intention of examining your beliefs. While some RCC theologians can find Christ in Genesis, none of their text experts can find Jesus there. I think the New Jerome Biblical Commentary (imprimatur and all) would just scare you silly.

You also seem to think that the way the text is spoken hasn't changed since the time of Moses. Wheeeeuuuuu!

The "Word" is Jesus my friend, in Genesis. It is backed up by John in the New Testament, when more is revealed. The old testament explains that Jesus was in the world, and the world knew him not. In the new testament, we learn who He is, and what His purpose is (to provide a light for the path).

I don't need an "expert" to point out the obvious.

mens_sana · 12-31-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The "Word" is Jesus my friend, in Genesis. It is backed up by John in the New Testament.... I don't need an "expert" to point out the obvious.

But you asserted that the "text" in Genesis supported you. When are you going to show me where the "text" supports you, where the "text" shows Jesus in Genesis? Oh, and by the way, you have broadened your claim, so exactly where in Genesis is the Word mentioned?

If you are going to claim that "faith" supports you, please go ahead and do so. Be my guest, and genuflect as you retreat from your rash assertions. But a claim that you are backed up by the "text" deserves citations that back you up — and you have yet to offer one.

juantoo3 · 01-01-2008, 08:00 AM

Kindest Regards, mens_sana, and welcome to CR!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

where the "text" shows Jesus in Genesis?

I'm probably sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, and it has been a long time since I looked into this, but I am thinking this is more in the symbols and interpretation rather than in the specific words.

Ha-Adam is considered by some Christian scholars to be a type or model of Messiah, which by extension would be the man called Jesus. I am not certain if the Jews consider Ha-Adam a type of Messiah or not.

Then there is the "curse" levelled on the serpent, wherein the serpent will bruise man's heel but the son of man will bruise the serpent's head. The Christian interpretation is that of Jesus overcoming the serpent (as a type for the devil). Again I am not sure of the Jewish take on this, as they do not believe Messiah has yet come, and that the devil doesn't exist (at least not in the same sense Christians do).

Quahom1 · 01-01-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

But you asserted that the "text" in Genesis supported you. When are you going to show me where the "text" supports you, where the "text" shows Jesus in Genesis? Oh, and by the way, you have broadened your claim, so exactly where in Genesis is the Word mentioned?

If you are going to claim that "faith" supports you, please go ahead and do so. Be my guest, and genuflect as you retreat from your rash assertions. But a claim that you are backed up by the "text" deserves citations that back you up — and you have yet to offer one.

Lol, I already did, and I retreat from nothing. But you go ahead and try to prove me wrong...which is as ludicrous as the reasoning I've been reading as of late.

pattimax · 01-02-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

My word search application must be defective, where does Genesis mention Jesus?

He's in there, it's right at the beginning.

mens_sana · 01-02-2008, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Lol, I already did, and I retreat from nothing. But you go ahead and try to prove me wrong...which is as ludicrous as the reasoning I've been reading as of late.

Sorry, all I asked was that you back up your assertions. You claimed that Jesus was in Genesis, then that the Word was in Genesis. I (apparently mistakenly) assumed that you could back up your claims with citations and asked you for those citations. It is not a question of whether or not I could/even should "prove you wrong," it is whether you are a blowhard.

Quahom1 · 01-02-2008, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

Sorry, all I asked was that you back up your assertions. You claimed that Jesus was in Genesis, then that the Word was in Genesis. I (apparently mistakenly) assumed that you could back up your claims with citations and asked you for those citations. It is not a question of whether or not I could/even should "prove you wrong," it is whether you are a blowhard.

Mens, Jesus is "The Word" of God...that is throughout the bible. It is simply another name/title for Him. So, I came through with your request.

mens_sana · 01-02-2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Ha-Adam is considered by some Christian scholars to be a type or model of Messiah, which by extension would be the man called Jesus. I am not certain if the Jews consider Ha-Adam a type of Messiah or not.

Hi, and thanks for the welcome.

Yes, some Christian scholars consider Ha-Adam to be a type of Messiah. However, the Jews do not — and they are the ones that wrote the book, all the way from Genesis to Chronicles (Hebrew Bible order).

Do you know the terms "exegesis" and "eisegesis"? When the Christian scholars find the Ha-Adam type, they are using eisegesis. Which practice do you think comes closer to the intention of the author?

Quahom1 · 01-02-2008, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

Hi, and thanks for the welcome.

Yes, some Christian scholars consider Ha-Adam to be a type of Messiah. However, the Jews do not — and they are the ones that wrote the book, all the way from Genesis to Chronicles (Hebrew Bible order)...

Which can be shown to have been taken in great deal from the Zoarastrian writings of Persia...