Jesus is not God....part 2

bruce · 06-23-2004, 10:47 PM

Now Jesus is the greatist man to ever live.He isn't God he,Jesus ,tells us to worship God, Matthew 4:10 King James 1611 edition.Satan knew Jesus wasn't God as a matter of fact he asked Jesus was he the son of God ,Matthew 4:3 King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God why would he question himself?Matthew 27:46.The greatist proof of Jesus not being God can be sumed up in this one verse John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time...King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God in the flesh then he still would be God and John 1:18 would be wrong because thousands of people seen Jesus alive!Who is God then ?Jehovah!Exodus 6:3,psalms 83:18.Jehovah Witnesses have the truth if one comes to see you see what they have to say,remember no one respected the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, people laughed at them .Jehovah takes meek and humble people and rises them up.....

Quesocoatl · 06-23-2004, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

Now Jesus is the greatist man to ever live.He isn't God he,Jesus ,tells us to worship God, Matthew 4:10 King James 1611 edition.Satan knew Jesus wasn't God as a matter of fact he asked Jesus was he the son of God ,Matthew 4:3 King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God why would he question himself?Matthew 27:46.The greatist proof of Jesus not being God can be sumed up in this one verse John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time...King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God in the flesh then he still would be God and John 1:18 would be wrong because thousands of people seen Jesus alive!Who is God then ?Jehovah!Exodus 6:3,psalms 83:18.Jehovah Witnesses have the truth if one comes to see you see what they have to say,remember no one respected the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, people laughed at them .Jehovah takes meek and humble people and rises them up.....

Right well said. Isn't Jehovah the Caananite mountain god of War and Fire?

I, Brian · 06-23-2004, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

Now Jesus is the greatist man to ever live.He isn't God he,Jesus ,tells us to worship God, Matthew 4:10 King James 1611 edition.Satan knew Jesus wasn't God as a matter of fact he asked Jesus was he the son of God ,Matthew 4:3 King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God why would he question himself?Matthew 27:46.The greatist proof of Jesus not being God can be sumed up in this one verse John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time...King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God in the flesh then he still would be God and John 1:18 would be wrong because thousands of people seen Jesus alive!Who is God then ?Jehovah!Exodus 6:3,psalms 83:18.Jehovah Witnesses have the truth if one comes to see you see what they have to say,remember no one respected the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, people laughed at them .Jehovah takes meek and humble people and rises them up.....

Hi bruce and welcome to CR.

And it would certainly be interesting to see a discussion on Trinitarianism arise - especially with a JW to help stir the discussion.

ZioNNoiz · 06-24-2004, 03:08 AM

I am going to do a bit of research into the issue, but your wrong. Give me some time to go through scripture to plead my case. New user and not a guru about religions so I don't want to talk out of my @$$.

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Clay

Mus Zibii · 06-24-2004, 06:03 AM

My view you ask? LOL No? Well, here it is anyway. I think the Trinity/Jesus is God thing evolved over time out of a gentile misunderstanding of what messiah meant. Pagans had several Christ-like characters and they were all identified as Gods.

But here's the kicker, without the identity as God the Gospel story is extremely lame. God as a suffering man is far more touching and enlightening than a prophet BSing about a shapeless, mute deity who reveals himself to few but demands submission from the many.

I, Brian · 06-24-2004, 08:56 AM

Hi ZioNNoiz, and welcome as well.

And just in case, I have a stack of pro- and anti- Trinitarian arguments saved somewhere.

Mus Zibii · 06-24-2004, 10:17 AM

I use to just take the Protestant approach to trinity with an 'aw, hooey' attitude. But I now look at it as a fairly understandable attempt to reconcile confusing contradictions in an 'inerrant' holy writ.

Somewhere else on this forum I saw someone simply say, its God as man, struggling as man struggles with God. I prefer that to defining instances where the son becomes the father, etc. My Quja says John Adams concurs.

Mus Zibii · 06-24-2004, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZioNNoiz

I am going to do a bit of research into the issue, but your wrong. Give me some time to go through scripture to plead my case. New user and not a guru about religions so I don't want to talk out of my @$$.

--------------
Clay

Welcome aboard. And welcome to Bruce. I hope he's not a post and runner, because he brought up a good point.

Mus Zibii · 06-24-2004, 11:01 AM

Here's some stuff to start off with. Since OT prophecy is without exception contested I'll stick to NT quotes:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Colossians 1:14-15 In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which He hath Purchased with His Own Blood.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 12:44 And Jesus cried out and said, He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness.

Quesocoatl · 06-24-2004, 04:07 PM

Amen.

arthra · 06-24-2004, 05:43 PM

Bruce wrote:

"Now Jesus is the greatist man to ever live.He isn't God he,Jesus ,tells us to worship God, Matthew 4:10 King James 1611 edition.Satan knew Jesus wasn't God as a matter of fact he asked Jesus was he the son of God ,Matthew 4:3 King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God why would he question himself?Matthew 27:46.The greatist proof of Jesus not being God can be sumed up in this one verse John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time...King James 1611 edition.If Jesus was God in the flesh then he still would be God and John 1:18 would be wrong because thousands of people seen Jesus alive!Who is God then ?..."

My reply:

The Baha'i view is that God was perfectly reflected or manifested in Jesus... Baha'is call this a Manifestation of God and believe other Messengers of God have also been in this category...Sometimes a Manifestation is speaking from the perspective of God and other times as a man, thus you have a seeming contradiction in His sayings.

- Art

bruce · 06-25-2004, 12:03 PM

Look what Jesus Christ said John 4:23,24 "But the hour cometh and now is,when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:for the Father seeketh such to worship him.God is a Spirit:and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."Now Jesus was alive when he said this now if Jesus was God wouldn't he have said you worship me in spirit and truth?This is whats wrong with the world they have been fooled by Satan.Satan is putting thoughts into peoples mind confusing them.Pitting Jehovah vs Jesus.It's not like that.If you remember this you might be able to see the truth.Satan's greatist trick is to convince people he isn't real!!!one other thing People who worship Jesus explain what Jesus meant in Matthew 5:5 if everyone who goes to"heaven or hell"when they die who are these people?The answer is there........

Avinash · 06-25-2004, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

Look what Jesus Christ said John 4:23,24 "But the hour cometh and now is,when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit:and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

"Now Jesus was alive when he said this now if Jesus was God wouldn't he have said you worship me in spirit and truth?This is what's wrong with the world they have been fooled by Satan. Satan is putting thoughts into peoples mind confusing them. Pitting Jehovah vs Jesus. It's not like that.

Namaskar Bruce,

It is most unusual for any kind of guru to claim his own status directly. So when Jesus teaches in public, he will never reveal openly how his initiated disciples should regard him. Rather it would follow automatically from the secret meditation instructions (which can of course not be found in the Christian Bible).

So quoting the Christian New Testament is not going to solve this matter at all.

I, Brian · 06-25-2004, 02:03 PM

Just to point out that I've merged the part 1 and part 2 of this thread (bruce, please keep to the same thread, instead of gratuitousyl starting multiple threads about the same topic). also: thread moved to Christianity.

Mus Zibii · 06-27-2004, 01:07 AM

I liked this thread and it died. What happened to ZioNNoiz?

I've been trying to look at the NT testament as if it were flawless and see it from Bruce's point of view. One thing that keeps coming up is the disregard for the epistles. Many of them are pseudonymous, and the legit ones can be argued to contain pious additions. However, many of the often skimmed over epistles were written well before a gospel tradition took hold. The traditional order of the english bible is misleading by putting the gospels first, as much to imply that Jesus came, did all these things that were recorded and then these other fellas came along and pondered his actions. This brings up the question, does age equate legitimacy, and should Paul be looked at as having more credibility than the anonymous gospel writers? If so, without a doubt they looked at messianic predictions derived from the OT to be the embodiment of God.