Jesus Never Was a Mystery- Jesus Himself Explains – Sigh of Jonah

[Faithfulservant]

there is a sticky thread on the Christianity forum.. its pretty clear where to appropriately post which topics.. Brian has done an excellent job in giving us all a place to call home here. He has also created a place for us all to be respected so we can have a healthy tolerant relationship with others of differing beliefs. Thats a first in history btw..

Lets not be difficult and break his rules hmm? We are guests in his home.

[Bandit]

here is the brief definition of Christianity as given from Brian for Comparative Religon.

jesus christ

Christianity is centered upon the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as chronicled in the Gospels, and the texts of the New Testament which develop theological themes centered upon him. Believed born around 4 BC, Jesus is said to have begun his ministry around 30 AD, during the time of Tiberius Caesar. After performing great miracles he is said to have been crucified by the Romans under direction from the Jewish religious authorities.

Given the title of Jesus Christ, he has become an important figure of salvation, his death a sacrifice to atone for all human sin since the time of Adam, the first man, as chronicled in the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament.

His hebrew name is originally "Yeshoshua", Jesus being a Greek form of the word. The Latin rendering would be Joshua. The title of Christ itself comes from the Greek word for "annointed", which is a reference to the tradition of Old Testament prophets being annointed in a ritualistic manner. In the New Testament it is used implicitly as the title of the Jewish Messiah.
canon

The whole tradition is believed to have existed at first only in oral form, with various writings slowly coming into existence over the next hundred years after the death of Jesus. There is a great amount of debate among Biblical scholars as to which came first. The Gospels are often cited as having being composed from around 50 AD. However, the first time they appear in the form as we know now does not occur until around the middle of the second century AD.
The Epistles of Saul of Tarsus (Saint Paul) are less contentious, with general agreement of their origin being in in the 50's and 60's AD. They are most likely the first textual material of the accepted Christian canon. This is important as St. Paul effectively is the origin for all Christian theology.
A relatively large number of Christian texts claiming informed origin soon became read about the Roman Empire, some of which are obvious and poor fakes, whereas others present interesting philosophical angles. It took the will of the Roman Emperor Constantine to bring together various Christian Bishops in 325 AD, at the Council of Nicaea, to decide upon an authorised Christian canon for an alerady greatly diversified religion. Despite the strong will of persons such as Arius, it was Athanasius whose viewpoint essentially became dominant in deciding what core of the New Testament was accepted. By 397 AD, with the addition of Revelations at the Council of Chalcedon, the authoritive version of the Bible that we have today was complete.
themes

According to the Gospel of Luke in chapter 10, Jesus is challenged to state which he believes are the most importnat commandments of God. The King James Version translates the reply as thus: "And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."

[Dor]

Originally Posted by wil

notta woof, just a sheep in woof's clothing that enjoys the discussion...I think the breadth of christianity goes way beyond the conventional core today...

Yep thats probably one of the biggest problems is people pick and choose what they want to believe and put stuff in and take stuff out and try to put their made up version of Christianity as just that Christianity...unfortunately that added stuff all takes away from the core and the watered down lets make everyone feel good version just does more bad in the long run.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by taijasi

It is indeed unfortunate, that many wear their faith pinned to their sleeves, or would stand - firm, as militiamen, daring others to disturb the proverbial chip. No one seeks that kind of confrontation, and the display of bravado is totally unecessary. Perhaps the discussion does rightly belong on this thread ... and I have practically no knowledge of the texts being discussed.
andrew

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Sorry I was told to be either hot or cold not lukewarm by Jesus Christ the Son of God, Saviour of the World, First and Last, The Word. So I will continue to wear my faith on my sleeve and respond to anyone trying to tear him down.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by wil

Just because my view of the scope of what a follower of Jesus could be differs from yours, does not make mine a personal attack.

Joh 15:20Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Mat 5:11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

We have been warned to be ready for the attacks and most are ready and waiting on them...actually we have sorta gotten used to them.

Originally Posted by wil

I am saying that the 2.1 billion people who make up christianity won't agree on many tenents, rituals, beliefs of their denomination v. mine or yours...the path is much wider...

Mat 7:13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at: Mat 7:14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Course we are told what the wide path leads to also...enough said.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by wil

Just because my view of the scope of what a follower of Jesus could be differs from yours, does not make mine a personal attack....Now of course if I were in the Catholic Forum or the Baptist Forum...I would have to agree... And while I feel that this discussion as the other that inhumility started could rightly be in the christian forum, it really doesn't matter. You've booted them both out....to belief and spirituality...where now my beliefs be they christian or pagan or scientific are now within the realm.

I am saying that the 2.1 billion people who make up christianity won't agree on many tenents, rituals, beliefs of their denomination v. mine or yours...the path is much wider...that is what I said...truth is their are many chrisitans in those 2.1 billion that don't believe in the virgin birth, original sin, trinity, diety of Jesus, resurection....but they count themselves as christian because they believe the value of what Jesus spoke....whether any of these are true or not...

hey Wil,
first of all I aint concerned about numbers & stats like that.
please explain to me how Jesus not being put to death has anything to do with Christianity?
you must be talking about another religion if Jesus did not die, get buried & rise from the dead.

does that mean i get to go into all the other religions here at CR & tell them to believe something different?
i think not!

first you say they count themselves as Christians because of what Jesus spoke is valuable, but then you say whether it is true or not...WHAT? does not matter?
so does it matter what people say if it is true or not? or we can just say whatever we want even if it is not true?

so what do you believe Wil? i am confused.
please explain

[I, Brian]

Just a quick pointer - I'm planning to update the entire site, soon - there are a few corrections and lots of omissions that will be going up.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by taijasi

No, Q, you're taking things a bit personally, methinks. As have others. There is no slap in the face intended. I stand by my belief(s) ... and just because they do not concur with yours, or even those of most of the rest of the world's 2.1 billion Christians ... does not mean that they are any less valid. Or that they are necessarily inaccurate, as far as facts go.

Just to clarify, the problem was that you were posting non-Christian beliefs on the Christianity board.

The CR forums function as a series of "walled gardens" - in each one, each faith is encouraged to discuss issues without fear of people from outside that faith coming in and criticising it.

A non-Christian telling Christians their beliefs are wrong and in error on the Christianity board, is just as invasive as a Christian posting on the Paganism board that their beliefs are wrong and in error.

Hence the reasons for the previous moderator actions.

[taijasi]

Since this will disappear anyway, now that the prevailing christian sentiment shall rule the day ... let's just remember whose history of tearing down who is greater:

Crusades
Inquisition
Witch Hunts

... all of which continues to this very day. To wit: You don't just have to play along nicely, the ongoing feeling of victimization on the part of christians - especially fundamentalist christians - which emerges each and every time there is the slightest thing said to challenge the prevailing, dominating view ..... THAT is demonstration enough for me, that there is no real interest in discussion. All that matters, is quoting scripture back and forth, until one turns blue in the face.

I've got a few better things than that to do with my time. HAVE AT ME, if you happen to catch this post before it gets axed. I don't expect to be able to post here much longer, and that's just ducky with me.

Sol Invictus

[Faithfulservant]

I would just like to clarify something..

Inquisition, witch-hunts and the crusades were the actions of mere men..

I had this funny feeling when you first started posting here that you had some negative feelings towards Christians and that it would just be a matter of time before those feelings came out. I was right...

There is the potential for so much love in this world to spend so much energy on hate. I can only assume that someone hurt you so much that you developed these feelings and for that I am giving you a serious apology on behalf of those of my faith. We are all human and we ALL make mistakes. Please do not hold it against an entire group of people..

[Dor]

Originally Posted by taijasi

Since this will disappear anyway, now that the prevailing christian sentiment shall rule the day ... let's just remember whose history of tearing down who is greater:

Crusades

The Crusades may not be the best part of history but lets talk about what caused them...they were not the brainchild of some ambitious Pope or some holier than thou knights...they were in answer to more than 4 centuries of conquest during which Muslims had captured 2/3 of the old christian world!

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Taijasi

To wit: You don't just have to play along nicely, the ongoing feeling of victimization on the part of christians - especially fundamentalist christians - which emerges each and every time there is the slightest thing said to challenge the prevailing, dominating view ..... THAT is demonstration enough for me, that there is no real interest in discussion. All that matters, is quoting scripture back and forth, until one turns blue in the face.

All religions have had bad and bloody pasts at times all but one has apologized for them and moved on from the violent ways.

Only one still think of Holy Wars and expansion of their religion through violent means, only one believes God has given them the mission to kill any who reject him.

Sorry to inform you but it is not Christianity.

[didymus]

Originally Posted by Dor

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Sorry I was told to be either hot or cold not lukewarm by Jesus Christ the Son of God, Saviour of the World, First and Last, The Word. So I will continue to wear my faith on my sleeve and respond to anyone trying to tear him down.

Dor, weren't these the words of John? Even if from Jesus, this verse is open for interpretation. If one is luke warm in their spiritual progress or their attitude towards God they will not receive the fullness. John says that God prefers that we would be cold or hot. Why would God want us cold rather than luke warm?? I think John was extra expressive in revelations because he was feeling the full brunt of the Roman army. He saw his faith and beliefs being threatened. You can imagine the duress under which he wrote this book.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dor

The Crusades may not be the best part of history but lets talk about what caused them...they were not the brainchild of some ambitious Pope or some holier than thou knights...they were in answer to more than 4 centuries of conquest during which Muslims had captured 2/3 of the old christian world!

True the crusades were launched to push back the moorish tide (that was the rally cry), however the Kings that initiated such were abosolutely stupid in conscripting ignorant, illiterate soldiers to go against more or less educated and literate Muslim opponents. That is one powerful reason why the "Christian" soldiers lost 9 of the 10 campaigns (and the victory of the tenth is questionable). The "Captains" who were in charge of the soldiers didn't fair much better in the "intelligence" side of the house either. And the leaders were interested in only one thing primarily (wealth), conversion to Christianity was a bonus, and death to the vanquished was more acceptable (as that meant more land for the King).

I'm sorry, but stupid is as stupid gets.

Definitely not one of Christendom's better moments in history.

v/r

Q

[didymus]

Christians- 1

Lions- 0