Jesus (pbuh) - failed Prophet - Page 6

Muslimwoman · 10-22-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattimax

We don't want you to be one of the ones standing there saying "ooohhh, I see."

I see you are as charming as ever Patti. Yes I did read what Blazn wrote, the fact that I did not go WOW I see the light clearly upsets you but you will have to live with that.

Well your above comment was sort of my point. That you WILL be saying "ohhh, I see - you mean Jesus (pbuh) was sent to tell us to worship G-D, not worship him". And many Muslims will say "ohhhh I see, I was meant to worship Allah, not the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)".

May I ask you Patti, how many gods do you believe there are? Is it really so hard to just worship G-d without having to go 'through' anyone.

Muslimwoman · 10-22-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Salaam MW...

No, but see... it's all SUPPOSED to be a set of mysteries that we ordinary people are not SUPPOSED to be able to fathom. Others must interpret it all for us through their roles in life. It's all about how societies have been organized to function over the centuries while being wrapped around such core beliefs. IMHO.

flow....

Ah yes, I have yet to come across any organised religion that doesn't need to 'interpret' for me. Why doesn't someone just do the idiot's guide and send me a copy (I shouldn't say that or some idiot will

).

Salaam

pattimax · 10-22-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I see you are as charming as ever Patti. Yes I did read what Blazn wrote, the fact that I did not go WOW I see the light clearly upsets you but you will have to live with that.

Well your above comment was sort of my point. That you WILL be saying "ohhh, I see - you mean Jesus (pbuh) was sent to tell us to worship G-D, not worship him". And many Muslims will say "ohhhh I see, I was meant to worship Allah, not the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)".

May I ask you Patti, how many gods do you believe there are? Is it really so hard to just worship G-d without having to go 'through' anyone.

Jesus would help you with that condescension.

You KNOW good and well what I believe, and going 'through' anyone is unnecessary. If you want to try and decipher the trinity you may. I see it in so many things, but yet there really aren't words for it. I have heard it said that truly understanding the trinity has nothing to do with words. I know that's kind of sounds flakey but when you do get it, it's rather beautiful.

Where do you get the idea that I go 'through' someone? I'm Baptist.

pattimax · 10-23-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Patti...

And still it is possible, and you must admit the possibilty of it, that you and Blazn may be the ones slapping your heads and saying what you prophesy for others.

No system of belief is infallible over time. And time will tell.

flow....

flow...

Belief systems do fail over time. But has it ever occurred to you that Christianity is so much more than a belief system.

And as for time telling, that may or may not be a good thing. What I mean is that time is finite. Time will end...

btw- I believe the bible prophesied that. Pattimax just a messenger.

flowperson · 10-23-2007, 01:25 AM

Hi Patti:

Well. Ive been called a messenger also, but usually in derogatory terms. However, to my knowledge, nobody's tried to shoot me yet.

I'm sorry but I am of the opinion that Christianity is just a valid religious belief system. I say that after decades of research into it's roots and the implications of its philosophies. And I still consider myself to be a Christian, even as distorted as that name has become in the media these days. IMHO, people such as the televangelists have done great damage to the faith that I grew up to love over the past 65 years.

As with all belief systems it's tenets may be used by hierarchies for good or ill when it comes to controlling the social order and the individuals within it. It is as fallable as each person who advocates it and applys it's principles. And my opinion is that traditional forms of belief in Christianity are passing with the times. I would't call it apostasy or a falling away, but a realization by many that its traditional tenets just do not fit with many of the realities of human life these days.

My personal belief is that Jesus would be agahst at some of the interpretations that the hierarchies have made over the centuries concerning His life, works, and purpose. He was a simple man with a complex message, and IMHO, many of the people applying what He came to teach us are just not doing a very good job of it. Hence declining church attendance and secular-oriented belief systems.

I do admire your fervency and committment to what you believe, and would hope that here are many of us, aside from you and yours ,who also hold valid beliefs in Jesus, even though they aren't always literally interpreted in the light of traditional explanations of Bible knowledge.

And I have two more observations. How is Christianity more than a belief system? Please explain.

And without human beings to recognize it's passage, time has no meaning whatsoever. Are you anticipating an extermination of the human species, and do you find that to be a "good" event ?

flow....

Quahom1 · 10-23-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Patti...

And still it is possible, and you must admit the possibilty of it, that you and Blazn may be the ones slapping your heads and saying what you prophesy for others.

No system of belief is infallible over time. And time will tell.

flow....

bless you flow...but you are way out of you element here. Your "research" has nothing to do with "our faith". And our faith has everything to do with our prophecies...

I thank you for your reconsideration and quick change of your original thought on this matter however, it is the epitome of respect. I'm grateful for that.

v/r

Q

Quahom1 · 10-23-2007, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

bless you flow...but you are way out of you element here. Your "research" has nothing to do with "our faith". And our faith has everything to do with our prophecies...

I thank you for your reconsideration and quick change of your original thought on this matter however, it is the epitome of respect. I'm grateful for that.

v/r

Q

p.s. Christianity is not a belief system persee, but rather, a way of life...

madeinrussia89 · 10-23-2007, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Ah-ha, now here is a statement my brain can get to grips with. So do you believe that Jesus (pbuh) coming to earth was simply G-d projecting Himself or an aspect of Himself so we could see Him?

Sorry have had the discussion so many times and my brain still can't get round the Trinity, I think there is much confusion with non-Christians because it is difficult to accept that 3 are one but then you get those that say 3 are 3 but belong to one, etc - it is all just so baffling at times.

Salaam, MW

Yeah, it really can be confusing to all of us, no doubt. It took me a longggggg time to figure it out.

I guess it was more of an aspect of himself (but 100% God and 100% man), meaning it's still just God, but as someone else said, we are kind of dabbling in the " mysteries " here.

There is so much confusion with non-Christians because there is so much confusion with Christians themselves. Which I'm sure drives most if not all people away from the faith.

The most important issue though as stated before, is accepting our salvation through the resurrection of Christ.

China Cat Sunflower · 10-23-2007, 03:02 AM

If Christianity isn't a belief system why is there such a thing as Method-ism?

Chris

pattimax · 10-23-2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

If Christianity isn't a belief system why is there such a thing as Method-ism?

Chris

It started as a slightly derogatory term (oh...they have a method), but followers of Christ did not care and they ran with it and it has turned into a very rich tradition. Or something like that. Anybody please feel free to correct me.

Besides that is a denomination.

Muslimwoman · 10-23-2007, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madeinrussia89

I guess it was more of an aspect of himself (but 100% God and 100% man), meaning it's still just God,

The most important issue though as stated before, is accepting our salvation through the resurrection of Christ.

assalaamu madeinrussia

(we will have to narrow that name down a bit - how about MIR?)

Okay, when I look at those two statement they seem totally contradictory to me. If Christ was/is G-d then surely resurrection is through G-d because you say Chirst is G-d. Do you see what I mean? Your first statement says 'still just G-d' but your second statements appears to seperate Jesus (pbuh) out from G-d. (I am just never going to get this am I?!)

For me, the Christian Jesus (pbuh) could not BE G-d because it required G-d to resurrect him, he is therefore subject to G-d, as is all of creation.

Muslimwoman · 10-23-2007, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattimax

Where do you get the idea that I go 'through' someone? I'm Baptist.

Because you objected to what I said regarding Blazn's post, which was:

There is no getting to the Father without going through the Son who He has appointed over all things

pattimax · 10-23-2007, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Because you objected to what I said regarding Blazn's post, which was:

There is no getting to the Father without going through the Son who He has appointed over all things

Okay...I am so much a trinitarian, I don't see these thingslike that. I am of the opinion that the Father and Son are one in heaven.
Now I understand.

BlaznFattyz · 10-23-2007, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

If Christ was/is G-d then surely resurrection is through G-d because you say Chirst is G-d. Do you see what I mean? Your first statement says 'still just G-d' but your second statements appears to seperate Jesus (pbuh) out from G-d. (I am just never going to get this am I?!)

god the father raised christ, christ raised himself, and the spirit raised christ.

Quahom1 · 10-23-2007, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

assalaamu madeinrussia

(we will have to narrow that name down a bit - how about MIR?)

Okay, when I look at those two statement they seem totally contradictory to me. If Christ was/is G-d then surely resurrection is through G-d because you say Chirst is G-d. Do you see what I mean? Your first statement says 'still just G-d' but your second statements appears to seperate Jesus (pbuh) out from G-d. (I am just never going to get this am I?!)

For me, the Christian Jesus (pbuh) could not BE G-d because it required G-d to resurrect him, he is therefore subject to G-d, as is all of creation.

Who are you? I mean that literally. Are you your body? Are you your mind? Are you your spirit/soul? Or are you all three?...

Now apply that to God, and therein you find the answer to the guestion you seek...

Who is God, and how can Jesus claim to be God?...If Jesus is the "body", then the "mind" and "Spirit" of God are left. All three are God, but different manifistations of God. Jesus said, to know Him, is do know God the Father...I think that makes sense...

v/r

Q