Jewish Renewal

[dauer]

I don't know how many Jews there are here, but what is everyone's opinion of the Renewal movement? Is Shacter-Shalomi a revolutionary, a blasphemer? Is it causing too much change too quickly? Is its spirituality a benefit to less frum Jews? Do they borrow too much from other religions?

[I, Brian]

Hi dauer and welcome to the forums.

Hopefully someone will answer your question soon.

[bananabrain]

Is Shachter-Shalomi a revolutionary, a blasphemer?

well, i'd say emphatically *no* to the latter, but then i would. i think he's now left the lubavitch, hasn't he? this is not prima facie grounds for considering him either unless, of course, you happen to have a vested interest in him being considered so, for good or bad reasons. revolutionary, perhaps. i'm not so sure that's a bad thing. either way he has kept his nose clean in terms of his personal conduct as far as i know.

Is it causing too much change too quickly?

i think it depends who you ask. for some people, it is. for others, it's not nearly enough change nearly fast enough. i think change and modernity are a problem across the jewish world - over here in the UK, at least, aleph and the renewal people are active more or less outside the official institutions, with occasional participation in the more ecumenical and broad-based initiatives, such as limmud. in the US, there's much more of a market for it, if you ask me - take something like hazon (http://www.hazon.org) which is renewal-influenced, albeit a niche...

Is its spirituality a benefit to less frum Jews? Do they borrow too much from other religions?

i think borrowing tends to reinforce the fact that there is a core of shared wisdom whose manifestation within judaism we tend to miss.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[dauer]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

well, i'd say emphatically *no* to the latter, but then i would. i think he's now left the lubavitch, hasn't he? this is not prima facie grounds for considering him either unless, of course, you happen to have a vested interest in him being considered so, for good or bad reasons. revolutionary, perhaps. i'm not so sure that's a bad thing. either way he has kept his nose clean in terms of his personal conduct as far as i know.

He was kicked out in the 60s or 70s when he wrote a paper on halucinogenics in religion. He wasn't supporting their use, but it was enough.

i think borrowing tends to reinforce the fact that there is a core of shared wisdom whose manifestation within judaism we tend to miss.

I agree. I tend not to have a problem with it as long as it isn't a complete substitute for standard Jewish practice. But if it helps people hold on to a Jewish identity for a little while, I guess it's not so bad.

Dauer

[bananabrain]

oh, right. you can see where that would be a problem, especially given their modern programs like chabad drugsline. anything that smacks of hippiedom would not exactly be welcome in the black-hat world. although i mind me that the mitnagdim thought that the chasidim were basically hippies back in the day. plus ca change. hey ho.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[wil]

oh my this new post stuff is fantastic.

I've been going visiting a Friday night service that provides a mix, but have real leanings to learning more about Renewal.

Linking to this thread got me to actually take action (ie google renewal in maryland) and discovered this:

Am Kolel invites you to Open Shabbes at Sanctuary. Open Shabbes begins on Saturday morning at 9:30 AM with a light breakfast. At 10 AM we continue with gentle Yoga and Hebrew letter meditation, followed by devotional singing and chanting and a taste of Torah wisdom. At 12:30 PM everyone is invited to a pot luck vegetarian/dairy Kiddush lunch (nothing that needs to be warmed or cooked, please). On Open Shabbes days all are welcome to hike, shmooze, learn and play the rest of the day! Please see the Am Kolel web site for Open Shabbes days at www.am-kolel.org.

Does that all sound wonderful or what?

[dauer]

That sounds very awesome. Personally I prefer my davenen to be a little more traditionally structured than that but sometimes it's nice to break it up. Course it could be a little more structured than all that and just phrased that way to draw a target audience in.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by dauer

I don't know how many Jews there are here, but what is everyone's opinion of the Renewal movement? Is Shacter-Shalomi a revolutionary, a blasphemer? Is it causing too much change too quickly? Is its spirituality a benefit to less frum Jews? Do they borrow too much from other religions?

Dauer, your last question to me on the reform thread made me search Renewal, and I came upon this old thread. You had some interesting questions around five years ago. Has your perspective on Renewal changed much during the last 5 years ?

And it looks like Wil should have won the interfaith award for his activities back last year !!

[dauer]

Originally Posted by Avi

Has your perspective on Renewal changed much during the last 5 years ?

I'm not certain. Based on my comments in this thread I'd say they haven't changed very much but to fully respond I'd have to perform a more thorough survey of my writing from five years ago. I didn't say very much in this thread back in 2004. The first post was more-or-less an attempt at stirring up conversation without reflecting my own personal biases too strongly. The only aspect of my second post that I'd question is this:

But if it helps people hold on to a Jewish identity for a little while, I guess it's not so bad.

How non-committal of me! Now I don't care as much whether or not people hold onto their Jewish identity and I think the more important aspect of syncretism is enriching spiritual practice. But it's possible that my response then was merely an attempt to find what I thought might be some middle ground.

-- Dauer