just an observation....

17th Angel · 10-30-2006, 03:43 PM

Curious seen in a few places when saying the word god.... Wil and a few other mask the word? "g!d" "g-d" and so forth.... Why?

pattimax · 10-30-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Curious seen in a few places when saying the word god.... Wil and a few other mask the word? "g!d" "g-d" and so forth.... Why?

Very good question. I asked the same thing myself. Ancient Jewish followers felt it was somehow disrespectful.
I think it is silly and legalistic. It seems that vowels didn't exist in Hebrew. I am not an ancient Hebrew. GOD exists. Not calling Him by name is like calling your father "hey you."

17th Angel · 10-30-2006, 04:14 PM

From my small understanding of the bible, you are supposed to get an ultra super super close relationship with god. To the extent he wished to be called by his name. So I also find it odd why people mask the title of god. I think jah would find that odd too...

"What do you believe in?"
"I believe in *COUGHgodCOUGH!!*"
"eh?"

pattimax · 10-30-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

From my small understanding of the bible, you are supposed to get an ultra super super close relationship with god. To the extent he wished to be called by his name. So I also find it odd why people mask the title of god. I think jah would find that odd too...

"What do you believe in?"
"I believe in *COUGHgodCOUGH!!*"
"eh?"

GOD. Jesus Christ.
Curious? What do you believe in?

wil · 10-30-2006, 04:45 PM

Good stuff. The history for me as I understand it. YHWH was not to be uttered...the undefinable, unencompassable shouldn't be defined by a word. Better to get the straight poop from our Jewish Brethren.

So for me it started when it became clear if someone uttered the word G-d, it conjured up in my head that Sunday School version of the big white guy in the sky keepin lists on who is naughty and nice. My understanding of G-d has grown from that but the word started and old paradigm.

I've grown out of that now, but have grown into the respect that our friends have for not trying to put spirit in any sort of box, or creating source in our image.

And I do agree about the ultra super close relationship with all that is, like being able to say 'Hey you'

17th Angel · 10-30-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattimax

GOD. Jesus Christ.
Curious? What do you believe in?

Death.... To define in more detail, I believe in nothing I believe we are merely an animal with more intelligence than is good for us heh. So we start to realise that we are not eternal and not forever, so we need some comfort some "hope" that death isn't the end... I feel as if it is, but alas I fear not death.

I did try -hard- believe me, to accept god and to live by the bible... I just couldn't I wasn't happy, I still felt like I was living a lie and that there was so many questions that couldn't be answered when I started to dig...... Before that I was a Satanist, and I liked that to say the least.... I became I high ranked, respected memeber of a well known group which shall remain nameless... I took leave of this and yeah anyway here I am now without any faith to any god or gods.

"There are two things that are certain to hit everyone in this world no matter what faith or religion, taxes and death."

juantoo3 · 11-03-2006, 01:37 AM

Kindest Regards, 17th!

Been busy while you were away, I see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Curious seen in a few places when saying the word god.... Wil and a few other mask the word? "g!d" "g-d" and so forth.... Why?

Can't speak for others, I started using this manner of spelling (with a capital "G") out of respect for our Jewish members. In doing so, I found myself appreciating the new found (couple of years now) respect towards my Creator as well. It's a believer thing...you wouldn't understand.

As for legalism...there are worse "isms" to be guilty of. I cast no judgements, that I be not judged.

BTW, how's the hemp garden?

cyberpi · 11-03-2006, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I became I high ranked, respected memeber of a well known group which shall remain nameless... I took leave of this and yeah anyway here I am now without any faith to any god or gods.

Have you any children? What would you advise your children to do?

As for the secret statanist clubs, I'm reminded of:

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

So, are you here to say that your deeds are evil 17th angel?

17th Angel · 11-03-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Have you any children? What would you advise your children to do?

As for the secret statanist clubs, I'm reminded of:

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

So, are you here to say that your deeds are evil 17th angel?

To me? No I don't believe my deeds are 100% evil.

To others? Perhaps...

Thomas · 11-03-2006, 11:56 AM

The history for me as I understand it. YHWH was not to be uttered...the undefinable, unencompassable shouldn't be defined by a word. Better to get the straight poop from our Jewish Brethren.

Wil's right. The word YHWH was not to be uttered, and now no-one is sure how the word was pronounced, as there were no vowels.

So the Jews used 'Adonai' - Lord (like referring to your father as 'Father').

The term Jehovah, Jahweh, etc., are in fact 'erroneous' derivatives from German translators who conflated YHWH and Adonai (hence the Germanic 'J' instead of the 'Y') - by inserting vowels into the Tetragrammaton by guesswork.

I quote erroneous as many know of this conflation, but allow it accordingly.

Those who choose to write G-d do so as a matter of taste and respect, I choose to refer to the Divinity by capitalisation of the pronoun eg: He - but again it's a matter of taste and preference.

When I read Scripture I try to 'see' Yahweh, but 'read' Adonai.

Thomas.

cyberpi · 11-03-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

To me? No I don't believe my deeds are 100% evil.
To others? Perhaps...

... and so with those deeds that you think are partially evil, do you (or do you plan to) repent to people, yourself, and God... and try to change? Or do you seek to make the deeds that you think are not evil... more evil?

What does the alledged Satanist club teach?

17th Angel · 11-03-2006, 03:00 PM

lol, I am long gone a Satanist, but I guess I still hold some traits of that.... I believe there are some truly evil acts I have comited in my life. I have in certain situations where I've had the chance, appologised to my victims or tried to amend what I had done wrong. To me that is good enough. I have said I am sorry and given my word what I have done in that situation won't happen again. Thats me clear, obviously in my opinion. And to me my word means everything, If a man can not be trusted on his word... He is low.

There are then less sinister acts... I guess I blaspheme, to me this is no big deal... To someone else it can be very offensive and upsetting. So they can see me evil for this... I am one of the most vain people you will find. I am greedy, I am driven by materialism... This again isn't a big thing to me.. To others it would be.

I would say if you're wishing to know about satanic groups... It's the classic "do unto others as they do onto you." Obviously in complete oposition to jesus stating to "turn the other cheek." If some one spites me... I will hold that grudge till I get them ten fold.... I do not turn the other cheek. "an eye for an eye... plus ten."

Obviously "Satanist" Is just like saying "Pagan" Pagans! don't attack me lol I am not saying you are satanists... I am meaning that it is a "loose" word it is a definition for a collection of groups and organisations. The one I followed however was more humanist.... You are you're own god... You are to be pleased and worshiped. But because there are festivals and all that stuff... magic whatever there is some "spiritual" sense to it... Obviously some Satanists differ alot and believe in Satan as this big evil being that lurks in hell, some that he is a divine fallen angel that has been unjustly "picked on." there are many different ways and forms.. But I wouldn't consider them evil... Just their way. alike christians... That is just their way... Hindu, muslim, pagan whatever... I don't agree with any. But I don't consider any my enemy or evil... I think I am still biding my time, encase someone somehow can proove and convince me their path is right.. But at the moment I am pretty darn happy where I am...

cavalier · 11-03-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

It's the classic "do unto others as they do onto you." Obviously in complete oposition to jesus stating to "turn the other cheek." If some one spites me... I will hold that grudge till I get them ten fold.... I do not turn the other cheek. "an eye for an eye... plus ten."

I've lived a fairly sheltered life and could very well be missing something, but the only way I can understand someone doing this - always seeking revenge, and seeking it ten-fold - is if they have been hurt very badly, or are filled with some kind of pain.

Maybe you could shed some light 17th, what motivates a person to live his life this way?

17th Angel · 11-03-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavalier

I've lived a fairly sheltered life and could very well be missing something, but the only way I can understand someone doing this - always seeking revenge, and seeking it ten-fold - is if they have been hurt very badly, or are filled with some kind of pain.

Maybe you could shed some light 17th, what motivates a person to live his life this way?

Any pain I have experience isn't responsible for my actions (obviously excluding the battlefield.) I think in someways as a child is when I was more this way... Fear could be apart of it... A fear of someone getting you so you get them first.. And if they get you, you get them worse so you set an example which screams "back off and leave me alone." To any other that might fancy themselves. I have been involved obviously in youth in criminal activity and served times in prision and went through a period of "psychological" help... But I can't blame any other for hurting me or causing me pain I have allways been responisble for my actions many things I have done I have later in life seeked to find people from my youth to personally apologise... In some cases I didn't get the chance to apologise to people I have hurt... But, you know I look at it as me being a "silly kid" I was foolish.. I have calmed down alot but I still hold grudges when someone 'wrongs' me. I feel as it is the survival instict in me... someone "attacks me" and in my eyes I am simply defending myself then I won't batter an eyelid to apologise and will feel no guilt in destroying them lol. Again I only "lash out" in defense now... But in youth it was maybe different.

cyberpi · 11-03-2006, 04:36 PM

17th Angel that sheds some light, thanks... but it does invite a few more questions as to what you think a Satanist club is.

Eye for eye + 10: That is a fair example. I was thinking maybe do to others before they do to you would be even more evil. Like the misguided word, 'preemptive' or 'preemption'... except doing something out of hatred, greed, or fear instead of love and hope.

Blaspheme: What do you or would you do if someone blasphemes you? Do you accept others doing to you as you do to them?

Materialism: Have you tried giving to charity or investing in others? Do you have pity for those who do not have your wealth?

Prove it: That is the common plea I see from a professed atheist or agnostic. I think there might be several paths that lead away from that.

When you talk about pleasure it almost sounds like a strip club, prostitution, or casino, but you had talked about rank so it sounded like a military, street gang or an illicit organized crime like a drug cartel. So maybe not a group of people that purposely thinks of themselves as being Satanist and aspires to do evil, but that they might be. Or are you truly saying that there is a Satanist club that goes out of its way to find evil things to do?