Just thoughts - I should be sleeping! - Page 3

Silas · 01-05-2007, 07:29 PM

Dondi

So it is not as though people do not have the capability to believe in God, for God has manifested himself. It's just that they do not want to. They are without excuse. They have the witness of their conscince and God's creation. But back to your question, I am not promoting the idea of universalism. But I believe that God has given everyone enough revelation of Himself to at least bring them to the point that they know they are sinners in need of salvation, as indicated in their conscience and creation above. I do not believe that man is so deficient that he could not understand this and respond to whatever conviction is on their conscience. But he has two responses to chose from: he can either believe God or not believe God. That is why the lost are without excuse. For they know who God is, but are not willing to acknowledge Him.

I agree with all of that! That is why man is guilty!! Creation alone seals it. But, when coupled with the work of the Conscience, we KNOW that we break God's law "with knoweldge" that it is wrong and thus we KNOW inwardly that we've offended God and are in need of a Savior. Yet, no one comes - we hate truth and love the darkness rather than light. No one seeks!

"On the day of creation God looks at the stars that can swallow up a thousand of our suns, He looks at them and says all of you stars move yourself to this place and start in this order and move in a circle and move exaclty as I tell you until I give you another word. And they all obey Him! God says to the planets, pick yourself up and world make this formation on my command till I give you another word, and He looks at the mountians and tells them "be ye lifted up" and they obey Him. He tells the valleys "be casted down" and they ovey Him. Then God looks at the seas and says "Come this far" and the seas obey Him. Then He looks at man says says Come, and we say NO!" Look at the horrid wretchedness of sin! The volgarity, the prositution of sin, it is a horrid thing!" - Paul Washer

True, God has foreknowledge of who will be saved, but that doesn't imply that this is determinate of man's freedom to believe in God. The verses on predestination and foreordination are meant to describe what God will do for the the Body of Christ as a whole, that He wants Christians to be conformed into His image, which is the product of salvation.

Consider the following questions honestly and biblically: Who choose Abraham to faith - God or Ahraham? Who chose Moses to faith - God or Moses? Who choose the Apostles - them or God? Who choose you - You or God?

Dondi · 01-05-2007, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Yet, no one comes - we hate truth and love the darkness rather than light. No one seeks!

The Light is God's Word, His Revelation. It is the hope from God's word that stirs in our hearts the drive toward the Savior.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." - Hebrews 4:12

It is the Word (whether it is natural revelation, like the creation or conscience, or His written Word) that will activate the Spirit to stir in our hearts and bring conviction. But we still have the capability to accept and believe on that word, or not.

Consider the following questions honestly and biblically: Who choose Abraham to faith - God or Ahraham? Who chose Moses to faith - God or Moses? Who choose the Apostles - them or God? Who choose you - You or God?

God had a specific purpose in forming the nation of Israel, ultimately setting up the advent of the Savior. So naturally to bring forth this mission about, He did call people to perform specific tasks. But for the population at large, there is the general call to repent and obey God. It was set with conditions of blessings if obeyed, cursing if they were disobedient. It was conditional, just as salvation is conditional.

Silas · 01-05-2007, 09:57 PM

Dondi

The Light is God's Word, His Revelation. It is the hope from God's word that stirs in our hearts the drive toward the Savior. It is the Word (whether it is natural revelation, like the creation or conscience, or His written Word) that will activate the Spirit to stir in our hearts and bring conviction. But we still have the capability to accept and believe on that word, or not.

OK, then why dont all believe? You'll say, "cause they dont want to." I'll say "I agree!" Then I'll ask "Why did you, a child of wrath, a hater of God and lover of sin's pleasure, choose to believe?" What will you say...?

God had a specific purpose in forming the nation of Israel, ultimately setting up the advent of the Savior. So naturally to bring forth this mission about, He did call people to perform specific tasks.

So then, God called a unbeliever like Abraham to the faith and saved him. What of the rest, why didnt he bring them out of their land and saved them as well? Why did God save Naman only and not the rest of the gentiles in Iaiah's day? Why did God only save one widom woman in Elisha's day when there were so many?

But for the population at large, there is the general call to repent and obey God. It was set with conditions of blessings if obeyed, cursing if they were disobedient. It was conditional, just as salvation is conditional.

There is a general call to repent and obey God. Anyone who does lives and everyone who doesnt goes to hell. Praise God for His grace in election, else none would be going to Heaven.

BlaznFattyz · 01-06-2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

(Isaiah 43:10) "YOU are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.

all the copy and paste you did says nothing to counter what i said early or i didnt see it, and im not sure if you were arguing the attributes of god?
you own words show that god is holy, the holy spirit is holy, and jesus is holy. it also shows that god is perfect and righteous and jesus is perfect and righteous. furthermore, the bible goes on to say all three take their part in creation, resurrection, and the good news, and for god to do these things the the holy spirit and jesus are involved.
the reason all three have the same attributes is because all three are god all doing the will of the father and all pointing to salvation thru christ.

mee · 01-06-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

Read the Bible alone and put away your JW theology stuff - just read the Bible...PLEASE!

yes the bible is our guide , and Jehovahs people , always stick to bible teaching , it leads to great blessings .
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. John 17;3 taste and see that Jehovah is Good.
"Oh taste and see that Jehovah is good."—Ps. 34:8,

mee · 01-06-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

the reason all three have the same attributes is because all three are god all doing the will of the father and all pointing to salvation thru christ.

if we stick to the bible we cant go wrong,

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm83;18

BlaznFattyz · 01-06-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

if we stick to the bible we cant go wrong,

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm83;18

and by your own post using the bible, god the father is holy, the holy spirit is holy, and jesus christ is holy.

mee · 01-06-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

and by your own post using the bible, god the father is holy, the holy spirit is holy, and jesus christ is holy.

"Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies. The fullness of all the earth is his glory." (Isaiah 6:3, 4) Singing the word "holy" three times gave it special emphasis, and rightly so, for Jehovah is holy to the superlative degree. (Revelation 4:8) Jehovah’s holiness is emphasized throughout the Bible. Hundreds of verses associate his name with the words "holy" and "holiness.

BlaznFattyz · 01-06-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

"Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies. The fullness of all the earth is his glory." (Isaiah 6:3, 4) Singing the word "holy" three times gave it special emphasis, and rightly so, for Jehovah is holy to the superlative degree. (Revelation 4:8) Jehovah’s holiness is emphasized throughout the Bible. Hundreds of verses associate his name with the words "holy" and "holiness.

and by your own post using the bible, god the father is holy, the holy spirit is holy, and jesus christ is holy.