Justify The Burkha Please.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

In the last couple of decades there have been large numbers of muslim immigrants into western countries and as a result, most westeners have noticed Burkha clad women for the first time. I have to say that to me and many others I have spoken to it seems to be a very blatant kind of oppression of women, made even more outragious by the apparent indoctrination of these women to believe that it is right for them to wear it.

I seek to be enlightened as to the religious justification for such harsh costume. This is not an attack on anyones values, I only try to understand what seems so totally alien to me.

[bilalbusy]

Justify the nudity in the western society to me please and then I will justify the burqa.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Easy enough. There is a general acceptance in the west that the human body is nothing to be ashamed of and indeed should be enjoyed. The levels of enjoyment acceptable depend on the individual of course.

You very VERY rarely see nudity in the streets.

Ok, your turn.

[bilalbusy]

This is because the westerners have gone astray of their own religious beliefs. The only difference between the humans and animals is that, humans understand the difference between good and bad. When the humans start behaving as animals then there is no difference in that. I am sorry this is what is happening to the western society, which has forgotten the importance of clothing on a body. They call it a so called "liberal society". This liberal society will destroy their own families one day.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

But who are you to decide what is good or bad? Relatively few westeners share your religious beliefs and many westeners have no religion whatsoever. This is not seen as a failing, simply a personal choice. Many would go so far as to argue that clothing is only important if one is feeling cold.

To imply (as I think you are) that anyone who enjoys the pleasures of the human body more than you think they should is acting like an animal, is a very narrow minded and even arrogant idea.

A liberal society is not a society full of nudity, it is simply a society which is tolerant of pretty much anything which does not hurt other people.

[bilalbusy]

if you are claimant to be a man who believes and lives in a free society then burka must not hurt you, because these ladies do it as this is their personal choice. Why are you being hurt if you cant see them nude the way you can see some others. This is their body and they have all the right on their body.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

I never said that I disagree with it, nor did I ever even give the mildest suggestion that I wanted to see them nude. What I am saying is that it seems very unfair that women wear it and men do not, and I seek justification of this.

You are absolutely correct, no one is hurting me, but it is a part of living in a liberal society to make sure that no one else is being hurt or oppressed in any way either.

[bilalbusy]

First of all you need to learn as to what oppression means. If someone is wearing a burka why do you think that person is being oppressed. What is the relationship of oppression with someone's way of dressing.
By the way the reason of wearing Hijab for ladies is to to secure sanctity of a woman. How many women have you ever seen sexually assaulting men in this world. It has always been men who have been physically interested in women. How many muslim women would you find unsafe by some rapist in the street. It is only those women who do not dress up decently, or who tart up are the most vulnerable.
If you really are looking for the truth then this one answer should suffice.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

An excellent reason certainly, but I do have two further questions with this in mind.

First, could a woman not simply wear conservative clothing which allows some freedom of expression?

And second (and I must stress that this is a question and not an accusation, I realise that I am on very thin ice here) is the Burkha an option for islamic women or is it required? (hence my concerns about oppression)

[bilalbusy]

In all honsty Islam is a very flexible religon when it comes to Burkha(well because I know the REAL teachings of Islam..I can tell Islam is the most flexible religon generally anyway..and I have all the evidence to back it)

It just depends on the societies and the requirements of a woman that could allow her to have various styles of veil. But you must not forget that if religon becomes too loose in allowing it to be conservative..then with time the definition of conservative will not only change but also will stay a very subjective issue, and as a result people will not only leave the right practice but it will also become a mockery.I belong to a sect in Islam which is very different to the mainstream muslims and because we have a world wide leader, for us, all the concepts are very clear and we answer only with logic. By the way we believe that jesus has returned!!!!

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by bilalbusy

By the way the reason of wearing Hijab for ladies is to to secure sanctity of a woman. How many women have you ever seen sexually assaulting men in this world. It has always been men who have been physically interested in women. How many muslim women would you find unsafe by some rapist in the street. It is only those women who do not dress up decently, or who tart up are the most vulnerable.
If you really are looking for the truth then this one answer should suffice.

That's what it all comes down to - but it seems that women are being punished for the transgressions of men.

By the way, I removed some of the later posts, as it would be great to keep this thread focussed on the topic.

[sasa]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

That's what it all comes down to - but it seems that women are being punished for the transgressions of men.

By the way, I removed some of the later posts, as it would be great to keep this thread focussed on the topic.

Why did you ban me now. I don't think I hurt anyone's feelings here. You need to be courageous enough to defend your religion when you can talk against Islam on Burka. You knew that I had answered the query over Burqa excellently, and then you put your own post in the thread and banned me from coming back into the forum. I know you would ban me again now (temperarily, as you call it).

[sasa]

Moderator!! why did you delete the post in which "Awating the Fifth" thanked me and said that I had helped him a great deal by answering his query on Burka. You deleted his post and put your own post instead. Very cheeky!!!

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

I have to agree with sasa (bilalbusy) here, I thought that the way he and I argued our differences and eventually reached a peaceful understanding and mutual respect was a stunning example of the potential of this site, why delete the end of the conversation?

[sasa]

Thanks very much "Awaiting the fifth". After all I have got someone who supports justice here in this forum.
Many thanks,
Bilal