JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

So tell me Mee,

Is it only JW's who know the truth and are worthy of salvation?

Tao

First-century Christianity was even called the “way of the truth.” Should not acceptable worship today likewise merit being called “the truth”?



Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. JOHN 4;23



He has outlined his standards of truth in conduct and worship in written form in the Bible.


This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ... john 17;3









The fear of Jehovah is the start of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Most Holy One is what understanding is. proverbs 9;10




(Psalm 111:10) The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom. All those doing them have a good insight. His praise is standing forever.



(Proverbs 1:7) The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge. Wisdom and discipline are what mere fools have despised.



Happy are those who recognize the way of spiritual food and the channel God is using.
THE BIBLE and
matthew 24;45-47


yes there is only one channel and it is the one Jesus is feeding .

he only gives ALL HIS BELONGINGS to FAITHFUL ONES MATTHEW 24;45-47



i dont need to ask who is the channel because i have found it


and it is verrrrry goooood

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

So tell me Mee,
And what will you all do in this eternity...

Tao

we will do what the bible fortells ,


But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. psalm 37;11


(Isaiah 32:18) And my people must dwell in a peaceful abiding place and in residences of full confidence and in undisturbed resting-places.

(Isaiah 60:18) “No more will violence be heard in your land, despoiling or breakdown within your boundaries. And you will certainly call your own walls Salvation and your gates Praise.

(Isaiah 65:22) They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full.

(Psalm 46:9) He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; The wagons he burns in the fire.



NO MORE WAR ,


HOW COME?


(Isaiah 11:9) They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea.



when the knowledge of JEHOVAH is abundant, and people are taught by Jehovah, PEACE prevails

(Matthew 26:52) Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.



(Isaiah 54:14) You will prove to be firmly established in righteousness itself. You will be far away from oppression—for you will fear none—and from anything terrifying, for it will not come near you.


paradise earth indeed , no more war

[Tao_Equus]

Thats 2 rather long winded posts to NOT answer my questions. Instead you gave me...well lets see...

fear
fear
fear
fear

Woo00oo000oo00oo00 Be afraid! Be very afraid! For mine God is a vengeful figment of the imagination!!

I fear only the ignorant that allow evil people into power. Ignorant people who bury their heads in the vomit of dogma when they could be making a real difference here and now. Those that in their vanity of faith assuring them nirvana condemn us all to hell here and now.

Tao

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Thats 2 rather long winded posts to NOT answer my questions. Instead you gave me...well lets see...

fear
fear
fear
fear

Woo00oo000oo00oo00 Be afraid! Be very afraid! For mine God is a vengeful figment of the imagination!!

I fear only the ignorant that allow evil people into power. Ignorant people who bury their heads in the vomit of dogma when they could be making a real difference here and now. Those that in their vanity of faith assuring them nirvana condemn us all to hell here and now.

Tao

so what would you say that the biblical fear of Jehovah is?


one thing is for sure, it is not a morbid fear or dread .

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by mee

so what would you say that the biblical fear of Jehovah is?


one thing is for sure, it is not a morbid fear or dread .

Is it not? Depends how you brainwash your kids with it. I never heard fear defined as something nice n warm n cosy. At its mildest fear /respect is part of the patriarchal power structure, it enforces the idea that power is not to be questioned. Power should always be questioned and examined. There is not one single shred of real evidence been provided during the entire span of human history that there is a God. There have been countless millions who would say I should fear saying this, and thats all there is. The weight of false belief in the supernatural stomping down on rational thought.

But you have still not answered my question, out of all the people who ever lived are the tiny fraction of a percentage that are JW's the only ones who are assured everlasting life? And if so do you not think that alone means your God is a heartless brute to the billions of good innocent people who never even heard of the watchtower? There is no rational behind your organisation, its a cult of selfish ego, like so many. And a complete waste of your all to brief lifetime.

Tao

[greymare]

so if jehovah only saves jws. does christ only save christians and muhammed only save muslims etc. you see where I am going with this. and all us who dont believe in anything but ourselves, what happens to us. oh thats right, we will be dead so it wont matter. Im satisfied with that.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by greymare

so if jehovah only saves jws. does christ only save christians and muhammed only save muslims etc. you see where I am going with this. and all us who dont believe in anything but ourselves, what happens to us. oh thats right, we will be dead so it wont matter. Im satisfied with that.

Can't save ourselves, but you were going with something about the former as noted above...wish you would have kept going...

[greymare]

it could be such a long conversation q.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

But you have still not answered my question, out of all the people who ever lived are the tiny fraction of a percentage that are JW's the only ones who are assured everlasting life?

Tao

the answer to that is NO . millions of people have died throughout time and these ones are in sheol or in other words .... mankinds common grave ,, and the bible speaks about a resurrection .


ACTS 24;15



and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous



And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.” luke 23;43



(John 5:29) and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.


do not think that the judgement spoken of in John 5;29 is for their past deeds before they died , the judgement will be for how they act AFTER their resurrection . so the righteous one will get life because they already conform to Gods ways, but the unrighteous ones after their resurrection will no longer have the influence of satan to drive them into opposition to God and his purpose , because satan will be locked up for a 1000 years, yes satan has a great influence on people even though they are unaware of it , with satan out the way and only the knowledge of Jehovah on the earth great things can be accomplished .


Jehovah is accomplishing great things even now WITH the influence of satan still here ,just think what will be accomplished when he is locked up for a 1000 years

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I never heard fear defined as something nice n warm n cosy.

Tao

if you love your parents you would not want to displease them or hurt them in any way , that is what the fear of Jehovah means , we would not want to go against him to hurt him .



its about love of God

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by greymare

so if jehovah only saves jws. does christ only save christians and muhammed only save muslims etc. you see where I am going with this. and all us who dont believe in anything but ourselves, what happens to us. oh thats right, we will be dead so it wont matter. Im satisfied with that.

Hey never mind greymare . . . if it doesn't make sense, let me say you don't have to investigate. If there were 100 religions that said the same thing, imagine how much work you'd have to do.

Besides, even the Jesus in the New Testament didn't say that all Christians would go to heaven and the rest go to hell. I doubt whether "Christian" was part of his vocabulary.

He did say, "be my disciples" but what does that mean? Does it not just mean be a good person? Be a good person and you are one of my disciples and therefore you go to heaven? Was this not "the truth" he warned us to keep? Keep it simple? So much of this religion has been obscured by dogma and semantics . . . Do you see what I mean?

Imagine if the question was asked about how to be a true socialist. Does it mean you follow the teachings of Karl Marx to the letter? Follow the teachings of Leninist Communism? Or does it mean oppose plutocracies in all their forms? Does it mean to raise the power of the middle class? Set up a democracy? Independent Judiciary? The Stalin-led Communist/Soviet political system was far from being true socialist. I would say present-day democratic Western governments are far more socialist and far more successful in eliminating social classes than the trite, dogmatic Communist equivalents.

You see what I mean? The true spirit of social and spiritual ideals is often not brought about by aggressive slogan-chanting or creation of strict laws and strict enforcement of conformity, where only the people who create the laws know their true purpose. Other people may have their own ideas about true socialism but their ideas are wrong by definition.

The identity of the Jesus of Christianity is often one of mistaken identity. Somewhere in the history of Christianity a Lenin figure, Stalin figure came along. Karl Marx's teachings were distorted. The heretics who didn't agree with Stalin were executed.

[greymare]

mmmm political comparisions to religious. mmmmmm. you might havve to dumb it down for me.salty.

[mee]

[quote=greymare;133006]mmmm political comparisions to religious. mmmmmm. you might havve to dumb it down for me.salty.[/quote

Jesus was no part of the political world and its ideas ,and Jesus said that his followers would be no part of it as well.

[Tao_Equus]

Mee,
Ahhhhh so I'm in a win win situation then. When I am "resurrected" I will have the chance to prove myself a Good Man!!

Originally Posted by mee

if you love your parents you would not want to displease them or hurt them in any way , that is what the fear of Jehovah means , we would not want to go against him to hurt him .



its about love of God

Then there is no reason to use the word fear. Love and respect are perfectly suitable. Fact is fear is there very deliberately, and proves the bible is largely compiled and edited by MEN who like power over others. No matter how you try to wriggle out of it.

Salty,

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Dogma invariably destroys reason and, more importantly, justice. It is a cancer of reason that takes something potentially healthy and sustaining and perverts it beyond recognition. Whether you choose a religion or a political philosophy their are men and women who would hijack any message to their own selfish lust for power/greed.

I am not sure if you used the example of the Bolsheviks because they are sometimes referred to as an example of bad Atheism. This red herring is sometimes used by theists to shout down atheists. But the absolute pursuit of power is the same thing whether wrapped in a cloak of religious or political dogma. Political and religious fundamentalism is indistinguishable. Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Marx are an interesting study. I believe 3 of them were not power hungry madmen but the one that was assumed power for a very long time. An idea can be a dangerous thing and there is always a cut-throat waiting in the wings to hijack it. But Stalin no more represents atheism than David Coresh represents Christianity. Stalin stomped down on the Church for a single reason, because it was a rival to his singular authority. If he had seen a use for it he most surely would have encouraged it. He was simply too paranoid to allow any gatherings of any kind. Stalin should serve as a message for all those with a faith or belief in any idea, religious or political, that there is always someone seeking power and only too willing to pervert your good intentions to his/her aims. Bush's lip service to the Christian Right of America is a prime recent example.

Tao

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Mee,
Ahhhhh so I'm in a win win situation then. When I am "resurrected" I will have the chance to prove myself a Good Man!!



Tao

dont get me wrong i am not the judge of anyone ,

but when the great day of Jehovah comes, those in opposition will have already made their choice . and it will only be those on the side of God that will get through the GREAT TRIBULATION .


but many are already dead and those ones will get a resurrection , many dead ones are ignorant of God and his purpose for the earth.


but when it comes to the great day of Jehovah, it will be very clear who is on Gods side and who is not .


Yet, there will be survivors, for “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe.” (Joel 2:30-32; Amos 5:18-20) Yes, God will then destroy his enemies and save his people.



Noah is well-known as the builder of an ark for the preservation of life through the Deluge. He was also “a preacher of righteousness,” but his contemporaries “took no note” of his God-given message. They ate and drank, got married, raised families, and carried on the normal affairs of life until the Flood swept them all away. (2 Peter 2:5; Genesis 6:14) They did not want to hear about upright speech and conduct, even as today’s wicked generation closes its ears to what Jehovah’s Witnesses say about “repentance toward God,” faith in Christ, righteousness, and “the judgment to come.” (Acts 20:20, 21; 24:24, 25) There is no available record of how many people lived on earth when Noah was declaring God’s message. But one thing is certain, earth’s population was drastically reduced in 2370 B.C.E.! The Deluge wiped out the wicked, sparing only those ready for that act of God—Noah and the seven others in his family.—Genesis 7:19-23; 2 Peter 3:5, 6.