JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by mee

dont get me wrong i am not the judge of anyone ,

but when the great day of Jehovah comes, those in opposition will have already made their choice . and it will only be those on the side of God that will get through the GREAT TRIBULATION .


but many are already dead and those ones will get a resurrection , many dead ones are ignorant of God and his purpose for the earth.


but when it comes to the great day of Jehovah, it will be very clear who is on Gods side and who is not .


Yet, there will be survivors, for “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe.” (Joel 2:30-32; Amos 5:18-20) Yes, God will then destroy his enemies and save his people.



Noah is well-known as the builder of an ark for the preservation of life through the Deluge. He was also “a preacher of righteousness,” but his contemporaries “took no note” of his God-given message. They ate and drank, got married, raised families, and carried on the normal affairs of life until the Flood swept them all away. (2 Peter 2:5; Genesis 6:14) They did not want to hear about upright speech and conduct, even as today’s wicked generation closes its ears to what Jehovah’s Witnesses say about “repentance toward God,” faith in Christ, righteousness, and “the judgment to come.” (Acts 20:20, 21; 24:24, 25) There is no available record of how many people lived on earth when Noah was declaring God’s message. But one thing is certain, earth’s population was drastically reduced in 2370 B.C.E.! The Deluge wiped out the wicked, sparing only those ready for that act of God—Noah and the seven others in his family.—Genesis 7:19-23; 2 Peter 3:5, 6.

Ohhhh but you are judging me!! But I'l forgive you my son

Do you not see how ridiculous and naive what you are stating is? It is so obviously a psychological construction of coercion into a belief system. Every cult has one.

If there is a God, will he see my life devoted to the welfare of Earthquake victims, reforesting large swathes of forest in Greece and Scotland, saving turtles in Greece, mammals and sea birds caught in oil slicks and my ongoing professional commitment to environmental and ethical issues through Friends of the earth and the World Development Movement and much more as all just causes to condemn me? Just because I find all the religions corrupt perversions of truth based on a history stretching into pre-history of them causing nothing but division hatred and suffering. Well if "HE" does then he is no God I want anything to do with. So stuff him.

Tao

[Nick the Pilot]

Tao,

You are a person that does good things because they need to be done, not because you expect a heavenly pay-off in return.

Good for you.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Tao,

You are a person that does good things because they need to be done, not because you expect a heavenly pay-off in return.

Good for you.

Satisfaction now, or satisfaction later, still selfish, no matter how it's looked at. No difference, only timing...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Ohhhh but you are judging me!! But I'l forgive you my son

Do you not see how ridiculous and naive what you are stating is? It is so obviously a psychological construction of coercion into a belief system. Every cult has one.

If there is a God, will he see my life devoted to the welfare of Earthquake victims, reforesting large swathes of forest in Greece and Scotland, saving turtles in Greece, mammals and sea birds caught in oil slicks and my ongoing professional commitment to environmental and ethical issues through Friends of the earth and the World Development Movement and much more as all just causes to condemn me? Just because I find all the religions corrupt perversions of truth based on a history stretching into pre-history of them causing nothing but division hatred and suffering. Well if "HE" does then he is no God I want anything to do with. So stuff him.

Tao

Try taking care of the bum on the street, or your next door neighbor...then it becomes a big issue, because it becomes personal, and stinky, and messy.

You know those "Haitian boat people", that we should help, as they desperately try for the American shores in overcrowded boats? We should help them, right?

Who, should help them? Your dollar doesn't. A body must. And it is a miserable job, let me tell you...even if they were like children just waiting to be saved, is bad enough, but you deal with the gangs, and the bosses, and the despicable behavior that all men are capable of, and it's right there in front of you, on your own ship, then you have to be police as well as benefactor, and that doesn't go well with the "powers that be"...

Get personal with the refuse of life, get dirty, and have to become mini judge as well as helpmate, then "God" might see you in a good light, no matter what you believe.

...save the whales...****, save man first, then the whales will save themselves...

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Ohhhh but you are judging me!! But I'l forgive you my son


Tao

its not my job to judge anyone ,it is my job to put myself inline with Gods purpose for the earth ,


and that means preaching the GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM. MATTHEW 24;14


only Gods kingdom will succeed in putting all of the problems on the earth right,



no matter what good works we may be doing , it will only be GODS KINGDOM that will solve them.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Try taking care of the bum on the street, or your next door neighbor...then it becomes a big issue, because it becomes personal, and stinky, and messy.

You know those "Haitian boat people", that we should help, as they desperately try for the American shores in overcrowded boats? We should help them, right?

Who, should help them? Your dollar doesn't. A body must. And it is a miserable job, let me tell you...even if they were like children just waiting to be saved, is bad enough, but you deal with the gangs, and the bosses, and the despicable behavior that all men are capable of, and it's right there in front of you, on your own ship, then you have to be police as well as benefactor, and that doesn't go well with the "powers that be"...

Get personal with the refuse of life, get dirty, and have to become mini judge as well as helpmate, then "God" might see you in a good light, no matter what you believe.

...save the whales...****, save man first, then the whales will save themselves...

My dear Q!!

Thats a shot below the gunwhales old sailor!! (sic) I have helped the homeless, (I have more respect than to use your derogative), to the point they have been welcomed and fed in my home. I have helped my neighbours many times, sometimes at real threat of injury to myself. As for gangs I am persistent in trying to bring to light the leaders of a gang that supplies my wider area with narcotics and steroids yet who enjoy the umbrella protection of the church. In the past as a result of that I have been pursued and threatened and still fear for my safety. My public effort of exposure is probably all that keeps me safe. The murder charge failed due to insufficient evidence, or the cowardice of certain individuals, but my own public testimony is on record and protects me to some degree.

I make judgements based on my own internal ethics which I did not choose but was either born or nurtured with. I do not claim to be perfect or even special. I just do what I feel I can do. That I am drawn to help primarily with environmental issues stems from my deep love of the planet we live on and my deep desire to let future generations enjoy it as much as me. So I find it a petty post you "judge" me with. I cannot fight every fight but as a father I do my best to preserve this paradise we have here and now so that future generations can do too. I have no time for doom-mongers who essentially deny any responsibility to give future generations what countless billions before us struggled for, a crack at being alive. Our environment is what makes life worth living. Without all the diversity and beauty of the natural world we are doomed. Life on Earth is an intricate and dynamic web of inter-dependency. If you do not see the importance of the wider environment then I suggest you take a closer look.

My work with the World Development Movement is specifically in the fight to provide clean safe water for all peoples. Having travelled widely, and deliberately seeking out remoter and thus usually more impoverished areas I came to see how important and how valuable is this essential resource, and how often it is lacking.

So as you can see, I hope, I do not merely talk the talk, I walk the walk too. Sorry that I am not a coastguard with a six-shooter and a pump action shotgun "helping" those fleeing the terrible conditions of life imposed upon them by American foreign policy, (and upholding the American way of wasteful, runaway consumption). I do not walk your walk else I'd be...well I'd be you!! But I am not so blind as not to see that you just dont like my tone of disrespect for the whole God notion. You do not like me saying you believe in fairies, demons or angels. You do not like facing the idea you might be wrong. And most of all you hate that I have a rational argument for my point of view that you find very hard to refute. But dont worry bout it buddy... I'm damned remember!!

Tao

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

And most of all you hate that I have a rational argument for my point of view that you find very hard to refute.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

There is not one single shred of real evidence been provided during the entire span of human history that there is a God.

So Tao_Equus claims himself omniscient, Al-'aleem, sarv-gyaata, sarv-vyapt... surely you see the flawed logic there in your irrational argument... all seeing Tao? Well which is it, are you all seeing or not?

You claim that nobody has evidence that God exists. I claim that you can not prove that anyone has not seen the evidence that God exists... despite your irrational claims. Or is it that you are truly omniscient, seeing all evidence during the entire span of human history?

[greymare]

HEY q..... DONT DIS THE WHALES MAN.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

So Tao_Equus claims himself omniscient, Al-'aleem, sarv-gyaata, sarv-vyapt... surely you see the flawed logic there in your irrational argument... all seeing Tao? Well which is it, are you all seeing or not?

You claim that nobody has evidence that God exists. I claim that you can not prove that anyone has not seen the evidence that God exists... despite your irrational claims. Or is it that you are truly omniscient, seeing all evidence during the entire span of human history?

You play with words Cyberpi, you know exactly the point I make. Cheap semantics do not an argument make. I claim no special insight, just an absence of the God Delusion. Its not what I have that allows me my points of view but what I do not have.

Tao

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

You play with words Cyberpi, you know exactly the point I make. Cheap semantics do not an argument make. I claim no special insight, just an absence of the God Delusion. Its not what I have that allows me my points of view but what I do not have.

Tao

Cheap semantics? Your reasoning was irrational because it had real, physical, giant holes in it. Those holes are the places where you can not see... or have not looked. You claim to see a delusion, or a lack of evidence, where you are unable to really see.

Well, what would you call the person who says he has searched all history for evidence of God? Delusional? Rational? Omniscient? There is a daily history that no man sees.

[flowperson]

Mr. Sunshine. You're being pretty unfair to Tao. At least he works proactively to help make the future be better than it appears to be becoming these days. As a nomadic engineer who moves around a lot, do you consult on the construction of coal-fired generating plants ...or something ?

Q...I admit that cleaning up messes made by one's Government in the way back past is a thankless and dreadfull task. I've seen that all firsthand as a volunteer. But as I said above, prospective actions (when well-intended) usually always have more favorable outcomes in the future than do the detrius left over from Colonialism.

flow....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

My dear Q!!

Thats a shot below the gunwhales old sailor!! (sic) I have helped the homeless, (I have more respect than to use your derogative), to the point they have been welcomed and fed in my home. I have helped my neighbours many times, sometimes at real threat of injury to myself. As for gangs I am persistent in trying to bring to light the leaders of a gang that supplies my wider area with narcotics and steroids yet who enjoy the umbrella protection of the church. In the past as a result of that I have been pursued and threatened and still fear for my safety. My public effort of exposure is probably all that keeps me safe. The murder charge failed due to insufficient evidence, or the cowardice of certain individuals, but my own public testimony is on record and protects me to some degree.

I make judgements based on my own internal ethics which I did not choose but was either born or nurtured with. I do not claim to be perfect or even special. I just do what I feel I can do. That I am drawn to help primarily with environmental issues stems from my deep love of the planet we live on and my deep desire to let future generations enjoy it as much as me. So I find it a petty post you "judge" me with. I cannot fight every fight but as a father I do my best to preserve this paradise we have here and now so that future generations can do too. I have no time for doom-mongers who essentially deny any responsibility to give future generations what countless billions before us struggled for, a crack at being alive. Our environment is what makes life worth living. Without all the diversity and beauty of the natural world we are doomed. Life on Earth is an intricate and dynamic web of inter-dependency. If you do not see the importance of the wider environment then I suggest you take a closer look.

My work with the World Development Movement is specifically in the fight to provide clean safe water for all peoples. Having travelled widely, and deliberately seeking out remoter and thus usually more impoverished areas I came to see how important and how valuable is this essential resource, and how often it is lacking.

So as you can see, I hope, I do not merely talk the talk, I walk the walk too. Sorry that I am not a coastguard with a six-shooter and a pump action shotgun "helping" those fleeing the terrible conditions of life imposed upon them by American foreign policy, (and upholding the American way of wasteful, runaway consumption). I do not walk your walk else I'd be...well I'd be you!! But I am not so blind as not to see that you just dont like my tone of disrespect for the whole God notion. You do not like me saying you believe in fairies, demons or angels. You do not like facing the idea you might be wrong. And most of all you hate that I have a rational argument for my point of view that you find very hard to refute. But dont worry bout it buddy... I'm damned remember!!

Tao

What is below the "gun'l" Tao? I've been there, done that, own the tee shirt, and got holes in it...

I don't take cheap shots at anyone. You see me coming for miles. I don't like people poking fun at my God, or people who love God. I get really uptight about that. I think more than you has taken care of this world, some just do it in different ways.

I say so. You speak your mind, and I've spoken mine. What's the problem? And who the hell said you were damned? not me...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Mr. Sunshine. You're being pretty unfair to Tao. At least he works proactively to help make the future be better than it appears to be becoming these days. As a nomadic engineer who moves around a lot, do you consult on the construction of coal-fired generating plants ...or something ?

Q...I admit that cleaning up messes made by one's Government in the way back past is a thankless and dreadfull task. I've seen that all firsthand as a volunteer. But as I said above, prospective actions (when well-intended) usually always have more favorable outcomes in the future than do the detrius left over from Colonialism.

flow....

No, I rebuild Haitian schools, only to watch them trashed in 24 hours for the wood, so I rebuild them again, with concrete. I've also built homes for outcasts in the middle east, while armed guards watched over my shoulder. My engineering is closer to the heart, one might say...

However, I do have my "signature" on a new ice breaker, in the Great lakes, called the Mackinaw...win, lose or draw, I had a hand in her coming into existence.

My point is, don't slam one's fellow man, for their beliefs. Beliefs don't make the earth crumble, actions do.

And I didn't hit Tao below the gun'l, that was a broad side, that has been coming for weeks. He's not the only one striving to make life better, nor is he fair going after people he disagrees with. And no one ever said he was damned...

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Q,

Firstly I know you have never called me damned, nor ever implied it either. Forgive me if my phrasing gave you the impression I thought you had. At least 2 others here have tho, indirectly of course hiding behind the curtain of "scripture".

I know you are a good guy Q, and as well as shoot you can take it on the chin. You are not afraid to hold back in expressing yourself and I have always respected that. But I hope you can get the idea that as much as you believe God exists, and that he is 'good' I do not. I spent most of my life open to the possibility, uncertain and always looking for evidence one way or the other. Now I have come down off the fence and on the side of atheism. I am not certain I am correct but believe that there is not a single shred of evidence to support any other point of view.... for me. And that if he does exist he is a petty, spiteful creature unworthy of any regard if it is in his power to end suffering and injustice. Further I believe that the cost to humanity of the God delusion is not worth the price humanity has to pay for it. I feel this strongly enough to state it as a belief as much as you state yours.

I never did a thing in my life for kudos or karma points. I do what I do because I love life. This love increased enormously with children and my sense of obligation to future generations has become my number one consideration in all I do. Thats what it is all about, or what it should be all about. Loving being alive, breathing in the incomprehensible beauty of the whole cosmos that allows us our little thoughts. And in driving ever forward for progress and allowing future generations to do the same.

End of the world'ers have given up. They threaten the future of our children. And it is all based on the loosest, crassest interpretations of old texts that were written by men not Gods. I find such a threat to be growing both in the US and in Islam and there are very few standing up and calling it what it is... bull****. And it is only by believing in a future that we can build one. If we allow the proliferation of Armageddon dogma's then they will drag us down. Be hijacked by the powerful and greedy to cause yet more suffering. I do not need God to exist to be either a good person nor happy with my lot. And I genuinely believe the world could be a much better place without the notion of God.

Of course many many people of faith do good deeds. Thats not what my point is. Only that the atrocities that happen daily in the name of faith make the very notion of faith a price not worth paying.

tao


Cyberpi, show me any proof.

tao

[Ahanu]

End of the world'ers have given up. They threaten the future of our children. And it is all based on the loosest, crassest interpretations of old texts that were written by men not Gods. I find such a threat to be growing both in the US and in Islam and there are very few standing up and calling it what it is... bull****. And it is only by believing in a future that we can build one. If we allow the proliferation of Armageddon dogma's then they will drag us down. Be hijacked by the powerful and greedy to cause yet more suffering.

I 100% agree. You may not be as alone as you think. Karen Armstrong has always been one of my favorite writers, and gives great information on why preachers are preaching these literal interpretations from the bible. Please, take 5 minutes of your time to check out this conversation.

Explore The Spirit: 049: Conversation With Karen Armstrong