JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

You're a christian right? Heh, how ironic.....

I'm no conformist. I'm rather flexible in how I use my mind. Lol.

As far as being a part of a greater machine is concerned, I'm a part of none.

I don't serve ideology. I'm not one of its acolytes. When I make meaning of something, it's largely independent of what the rest of the collective thinks. I can't play copy-cat in this game and nor can I fall for the idea that I must be a part of a group mentality. I have to trust my own intuition.

I'm more of an individualist and anarchist in my approach to the faith. I do my own thing, my own way and I follow my own agenda because it's between me and God.

If I am in some way to be connected to the rest of the collective it is through my relationship with God, not an ideology, creed or philosophy, or through conformity or enforcement of that ideology/philosophy. Likewise, anyone who wants to connect with me as a part of that collective must not connect by means of dogma, banners, slogans and bumper stickers, but their own personal relationship with God.

While much of Christianity is conformist in its approach to faith, I've realised it doesn't have to be that way. The mistake is to think that one must become a part of the collective by conformity to a creed or ideology. Much of Christianity has encouraged that thinking. I believe otherwise. We become a part of the collective by our personal relationship with God, not conformity to ideology.

The reason why conformity is employed as the main tool, instrument or mechanism for pursuing the goals of Christianity is because our religious leaders don't believe we're smart enough to think for ourselves. They have more confidence in their own plans, designs and agendas than those of their followers. If we have any achievements in the way of spirituality, it is by and according to their logic that we have achieved something. They don't give us credit.

Christianity by nature doesn't enforce conformity. That is why there are so many different denominations. The denominations themselves believe in and enforce conformity, but they derive from something greater than themselves that doesn't enforce conformity. You could say that what the individual denominations do is "cultic," but that comes from their belief in conformity. Conformity is used largely because Christians don't even know they're enforcing conformity. If the word "conformity" was employed in our vocabulary our eyes would be opened and we would promptly stop doing it. This is one of the major paradigm shifts the present generation of Christianity needs . . .

Of course, this may mean that Christianity may become somewhat "diluted" -- something fundamentalists hate -- but it is something I see as necessary if we are to become more spiritual. Dilution is a good, rather than a bad thing. I'm a believer in soft power. Soft power rocks.

When in doubt . . . add more water. That's the solution.

As far as Christianity is concerned, it's not the religion, but how you approach it, that can make it a "cult."

[bob x]

when does a cult become a religion?

The original sense of the word "religion" is something that is "passed down", related to words like "relic" and "relegate". If you make up your own beliefs, that is not a religion; if you get a lot of followers, that's just a "personality cult" around you; but if, after you are dead, and after everyone who knew you personally and was swept up by your charisma is dead too, the movement still goes on, then it is a "religion". The Mormons and JW's are "religions"; Scientology will stop being just "the personality cult around L. Ron Hubbard" when all the ones who were attracted to it by Hubbard are gone, if indeed Scientology continues.

17th, nice poster!

I second that.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I don't know if I've ever met a more insular bunch than the JW's. You guys have a serious hive mentality. I might have checked out your church but you un's don't have potlucks.

It's a hall, not a church Everyone/anyone is always welcome to come in and have their life force sucked out via a used macdonalds straw directly from the cranium.....

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

1 I'm no conformist. I'm rather flexible in how I use my mind. Lol.

2 As far as Christianity is concerned, it's not the religion, but how you approach it, that can make it a "cult."

3 The reason why conformity is employed as the main tool, instrument or mechanism for pursuing the goals of Christianity is because our religious leaders don't believe we're smart enough to think for ourselves.

1 sorry then chief.

2 Yes, as soon as you join it and have a faith it is then a cult....

3 But, but, but, you're not meant to think for yourself, simply follow the rules and guidelines of god and christ and off to paradise you go. They do the thinking, that's why they're in the top seats and you're in the cheap seats.

Originally Posted by bob x

I second that.

Thanks buddy! I used gods very words at the bottom of it, he said that.

_Z_ Thanks to you also buddy!

Now, If I set my faith seriously into 'November 17' and my posters warning, which is a warning from god.... I now have a valid religion.. Even if there are but a few memebers or a million memebers and at the same time it is a CULT!

Originally Posted by mee

i prefer the bibles message its nicer,

But, that poster is the bible's message.

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

But, that poster is the bible's message.

maybe you are over looking the bible message , which is GOODNEWS and as psalm 37;20 says ,

For the wicked themselves will perish,

and as psalm 37;11 informs us ,

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

now that is a goodnews message and it is just what we need

[greymare]

that is supposing and hoping that WE are the meek. what if we arent??? Maybe your version of meek isnt what was intended?

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by mee

maybe you are over looking the bible message , which is GOODNEWS and as psalm 37;20 says ,

For the wicked themselves will perish,

and as psalm 37;11 informs us ,

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

now that is a goodnews message and it is just what we need

Would you consider yourself meek Mee?

Also, if you DO consider yourself meek.... Wouldn't that be seen as an act that you are putting on?

Sorry, this all sounds like a freaking fairy tail.... Where the bully get's his and the nerds and rejects of the school become heroes..... That is bs... lol It don't work like that, life is the most unfair thing I have ever experienced... And none, none.. Deserve what you are hoping is going to happen.... Obviously that would be death to all. ANYWAY! I am going way off my point that I want to make... So, mee.... You a meek person?

[greymare]

i no Im not meek. I love myself too much to be meek.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by greymare

i no Im not meek. I love myself too much to be meek.

tis a trick question... There is no way you can self judge yourself as meek, because you then are clearly not. In my eyes that is....

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

that is supposing and hoping that WE are the meek. what if we arent??? Maybe your version of meek isnt what was intended?

would you not agree that it would be nice to live in a world with no more wicked around? and i think it is a case of what God says is wicked not what our version might be . and the same goes for meekness. so again the bible is the place to find out what is wicked and what is meek in Gods eyes .
The good news is that we can have complete confidence that Jehovah will end wickedness. God’s qualities make it certain that he will take action against the wicked. Jehovah is righteous and just. At Psalm 33:5, his Word tells us: “He is a lover of righteousness and justice.” Another psalm says: “Anyone loving violence [Jehovah’s] soul certainly hates.” (Psalm 11:5) Surely, Jehovah, the all-powerful God, who loves righteousness and justice, will not forever tolerate what he hates.


Has God abandoned the earth? Does he care what men say or do? Is he concerned in earth’s affairs or its destiny? Many today say he does not really care, that he does not see the evil, that he will not act to halt it. Does the Bible agree with this view? Do the facts fit it? Does God no longer care for man? Or is it man that no longer cares for God?

[17th Angel]

lmao, mee... I got 20 bucks that says you work in the advertising industry... Your like a walking plug....

[greymare]

make it afifty....

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

tis a trick question... There is no way you can self judge yourself as meek, because you then are clearly not. In my eyes that is....

work in progress , but having the right attitude will work wonders . putting ourselves inline with Gods ways is a good step in the right direction . but as you say Jehovah and Jesus christ are the ones to make the judgment as to if we are sheep or goats . a sheep is meek a goat is rebellious
attitude ,attitude attitude that word also means a lot .
take Jesus as an example, he never allowed the negative attitude of others to influence his own fine attitude toward serving God; neither should we.

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

lmao, mee... I got 20 bucks that says you work in the advertising industry... Your like a walking plug....

you seem to be right there , i am advertising the following

And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; Daniel 2;44

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14


and guess what ,it is a good walk that i am taking part in because i am not alone there is a great crowd of others also advertising the same thing and it is GLOBAL revelation 7;9-10 and this walk keeps me very healthy indeed. thats because i am taking in the right spiritual food matthew 24;45-47 and it keeps me going .

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Would you consider yourself meek Mee?

what does it mean to be meek? It has been said that a meek person is a teachable one.

but meekness includes far more than that.
and as Jesus said ,“Learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, so i would say i am a work in progress

gentle or mild of temper; self-controlled and gentle; not easily provoked or irritated; forbearing under injury or annoyance. yes i would say that i am a work in progress . but doing our best to be those things is an ongoing walk .

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

Cult members often isolate themselves from family, friends, and even society in general. Is that the case with Jehovah’s Witnesses? NO,
they do not live in communes, isolating themselves from relatives and others. Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that it is their Scriptural responsibility to love and care for their families. many people get to believe lies about Jehovahs witnesses,

Seems to me it isn't the Cult members that isolate but the teachings of the cult that isolate. I've known many a Witness in my life, and as I contemplate and recall, each and every one had an estranged relationship with one or more of their family members due to the fact that they verbalized like you post. Whether other family members were Baptist, Lutheran, Atheist Buddhist or Agnostic, the constant berating for being wrong, constant quoting of scripture and indication that they were pagans for participating in Halloween, Easter or Christmas celebrations created riffs that kept folks from wanting to visit, go to dinner, cousins seeing each other etc.

If you have a great relationship with all your kin and co workers you'd be the first for me to know that didn't have issues. Frankly I strive not to be judgmental or prejudice, but I've learned here when I see your posts/responses to wait for a few more as I already know what I am going to read if yours is the first, and I do need a more varied diet.

lol, I imagine there are many who see my name and think the same.