JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

[bob x]

The "causative" form is the hip'il (from the root P-'-L "to do", hip'il is "he made [someone else] do [something]"), which from H-W-H would give yihwih or maybe yehiwih in the imperfect (with y- prefix) for "he is causing [something] to be". They must have it confused with the "causative-passive" hop'al "he was made to do [something, by somebody else]", which from H-W-H could give yohwah or maybe yehowah "he is being made to exist [by somebody else]", the opposite of what they want.
Actually, of course, the vowels in Yahowah (the change of the first vowel from a to e is actually more serious error than representing y by J, since that is the sound the letter J used to stand for, or w by v, since the Hebrew consonant is not quite like either) are an arbitrary insertion, reminding the reader that he is not supposed to try to pronounce YHWH but should say Adonay instead.

[mee]

In the Hebrew language it is written הוהי. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God’s name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost 7,000 times in the original “Old Testament,” or Hebrew Scriptures.


The name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah′ (הוה), meaning “to become,” and actually signifies “He Causes to Become.” Thus, God’s name identifies him as the One who progressively fulfills his promises and unfailingly realizes his purposes. Only the true God could bear such a meaningful name.

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Finally.... *takes big breath* Exhausting this lol.... They say they aim for accuracy yet their name itself is incorrect....



The very first letter stumps that idea.... lol the letter J in hebrew? Don't think so...

Also.... [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah′ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”].

That isn't right though is it?

To take the most prominent example, consider the name of Jesus. Do you know how Jesus’ family and friends addressed him in day-to-day conversation while he was growing up in Nazareth? The truth is, no human knows for certain, although it may have been something like Yeshua (or perhaps Yehoshua). It certainly was not Jesus.

However, when the accounts of his life were written in the Greek language, the inspired writers did not try to preserve that original Hebrew pronunciation. Rather, they rendered the name in Greek, I·e·sous′. Today, it is rendered differently according to the language of the reader of the Bible. Spanish Bible readers encounter Jesús (pronounced Hes·soos′). Italians spell it Gesù (pronounced Djay·zoo′). And Germans spell it Jesus (pronounced Yay′soos).

Must we stop using the name of Jesus because most of us, or even all of us, do not really know its original pronunciation? So far, no translator has suggested this. We like to use the name, for it identifies the beloved Son of God, Jesus Christ, who gave his lifeblood for us. Would it be showing honor to Jesus to remove all mention of his name in the Bible and replace it with a mere title like “Teacher,” or “Mediator”? Of course not! We can relate to Jesus when we use his name the way it is commonly pronounced in our language.

Similar comments could be made regarding all the names we read in the Bible. We pronounce them in our own language and do not try to imitate the original pronunciation. Thus we say “Jeremiah,” not Yir·meya′hu. Similarly we say Isaiah, although in his own day this prophet likely was known as Yesha‛·ya′hu. Even scholars who are aware of the original pronunciation of these names use the modern pronunciation, not the ancient, when speaking about them.

And the same is true with the name Jehovah. Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. It identifies the Creator, the living God, the Most High to whom Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”—Matthew 6:9.

In the Hebrew language it is written הוהי. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God’s name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost 7,000 times in the original “old Testament,” or Hebrew Scriptures.


retaining these is the thing to do , not change it into some thing else .

[wil]

Namaste mee,

When I read your argument to me it states that in regards to the name Jesus or G!d it is appropriate to use the modern acceptable translation based on your language and locale. Not only that, but in the future it will also be acceptable to change again.

So now I tend to agree. For Jehovah Witnesses it is appropriate for them to use the name Jehovah. But if our convention is to use G!d or Yahweh, or Universal Spirit, or .... that is appropriate for us.


You still haven't explained my confusion on the thousand gross going to sit at the feet. Is it possible for any of those that lived prior to Jesus or never heard of Jesus to be brought back up to the new earth?

Are the 144,000 already determined or are there any openings, or do folks get kicked out based on some newbies who have raised the bar?

[bob x]

The JW's filled up their roster of 144,000 back in the twenties. They're almost all dead now.

[wil]

Originally Posted by bob x

The JW's filled up their roster of 144,000 back in the twenties. They're almost all dead now.

So none of the disciples, none of Jesus' chosen made the grade? Not mom, not his kin, not Paul? Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, and Mary M. all out? Chose to raise Lazurus once but not worth it the second time?

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

Is it possible for any of those that lived prior to Jesus or never heard of Jesus to be brought back up to the new earth?

Are the 144,000 already determined or are there any openings, or do folks get kicked out based on some newbies who have raised the bar?

yes there are many who died before Jesus , who are in sheol (mankinds common grave)and they have the hope of being resurrected to a paradise earth. and that would include righteous ones who are faithful to God and those who die unrighteous John 5;28-29 but regarding those who will be going to heaven to rule with Jesus in the kingdom, the NUMBER is predetermined by God , but the individuals making up that number are not, they may be chosen by God but they may fall away and become unfaithful, so God would then chose someone else. but the NUMBER is the number that God has decided he wants. yes many ones are to be resurreced into a paradise earth and included among them will be Noah,Abraham, and many others, and those who are ignorant of God .

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

So none of the disciples, none of Jesus' chosen made the grade? Not mom, not his kin, not Paul? Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, and Mary M. all out? Chose to raise Lazurus once but not worth it the second time?

those disciples of Jesus were all part of the 144,000, and the gathering went on over many years after Jesus died, but those ones such as Moses, before Jesus will have the ressurrection into the earth.

[Francis king]

nice big party in hell though... woo!

[Francis king]

and we won't get witnesses knocking on our doors either!

they'll all be on the other side!

lol

[mee]

Originally Posted by bob x

The JW's filled up their roster of 144,000 back in the twenties. They're almost all dead now.

The gathering of the 144,000 started back in the days of
Pentecost of the year 33 C.E. and the gathering has been going on since then , but soon after 1914 when Jesus took up his kingship, he would have started to resurrect those sleeping in death to be with him in the kingdom. now in this time that we live in now ,there is only a remnant left on the earth of the little flock of 144,000, so as you said most are now dead and they are now in heaven with Jesus in the kingdom ,because Jesus started to resurrect them soon after he became king of the kingdom.(in 1914) but those who die now will not have to wait in death because Jesus will resurrect them in the twinkling of an eye, in other words as soon as they die. those who died after 1914 will not have to wait in death it will happen straight away after their death. but they have to die first.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Francis king

nice big party in hell though... woo!

both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment).

I am glad to say that the bible does not teach this false teaching , but many have been misled by it , even those calling themselves christians . i am glad to say that the God of the bible does not torment anyone at all in a hellfire , yes many have been misled by false religious teachings,

[mee]

Originally Posted by Francis king

and we won't get witnesses knocking on our doors either!



lol

but for now , its on with the Lords work.

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14

Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." matthew 28;19-20

while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house. ACTS 20;20


And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.ACTS 5;42

(Romans 10:18) Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, "into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances."


and not forgetting the angels who are working along with us

(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,


yes NOW its all happening as everyone is aware .

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

those disciples of Jesus were all part of the 144,000, and the gathering went on over many years after Jesus died, but those ones such as Moses, before Jesus will have the ressurrection into the earth.

So their are guys in the box seats and then those that get general admission. Moses, the fellow G!D sat down with to write the first 5 books, the guy that led his people outta Egypt...no box seat...nor that guy he renamed Israel, nor Abraham...

Originally Posted by mee

...regarding those who will be going to heaven to rule with Jesus in the kingdom... they may be chosen by God but they may fall away and become unfaithful, so God would then chose someone else..

When would they fall away? In Sheol? In Heaven? So after the second coming, Paul did good on earth, wrote all those nice letters, but makes some mistake and suddenly he's tossed back into the cheap seats on earth and someone gets promoted?

Sounds like the price is right. Paul, you're outta here...mee come on UP!

[Tao_Equus]

Notice Mee that you have taken to putting your own words in normal size script and your bible quotes in a much larger one. I wish to thank you for it. It allows me to clearly see that which I can safely ignore.

Tao