JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion? - Page 7

Bruce Michael · 12-02-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

i

Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU. James 4;8

And the paradox is, Mee, that once we acknowledge our separateness through sin, we are reconciled.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:10

Quote:

When we acknowledge our conditions of separateness and distinction from Father God we are immediately reconciled to Him once again. For those who take it upon their own egos to assume that the closeness is automatic without the searching, there can be the illusion of Presence without the actuality.

Better to confess to an emptiness and call upon Him to provide, than profess a spiritual abundance offering no vein for the inspirative force to pour in.

God Bless,

Br.Bruce

mee · 12-03-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

So their are guys in the box seats and then those that get general admission. Moses, the fellow G!D sat down with to write the first 5 books, the guy that led his people outta Egypt...no box seat...nor that guy he renamed Israel, nor Abraham... When would they fall away? In Sheol? In Heaven? So after the second coming, Paul did good on earth, wrote all those nice letters, but makes some mistake and suddenly he's tossed back into the cheap seats on earth and someone gets promoted?

Sounds like the price is right. Paul, you're outta here...mee come on UP!

you mention box seats ,but for me i think that living on a paradise earth is the place to be , man was made for the earth and living on the earth was Gods original purpose and it will be a great priviledge to be part of it , and those who are going to heaven have given up that place because they will be ruling as kings and priests in heaven for 1000 years, so for me , rather than looking at living in a paradise earth as a second class seat. i look on it as a wonderful hope for the future , and it will be for ever , and it will be PEACEFUL, NICEEEEEEEE

And it will be great to meet Moses , Abraham, and many others. Talking about people falling away from the faith ,you mentioned people falling away in sheol, that would be impossible because sheol is mankinds common grave ,and those who are dead are not aware of anything they are dead with no thoughts at all .As for me my hope is to inherit the earth and what a wonderful hope that is matthew 5;5. I do not look upon that as a second class place i look upon that as a wonderful hope for the future . along with a GREAT CROWD of others from all nations and tribes .revelation 7;9-10 Psalm 37;29

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.psalm 37;29

(Psalm 37:9) For evildoers themselves will be cut off, But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.

(Proverbs 2:21) For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it.

(Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

I am doing my best to be a work in progress because being a part of the paradise earth seems like a great place to mee

and the good thing about it is that the evildoers will be cut-off from all of the blessings . and righteousness will abound. YES, the bible holds out a wonderful hope for the earth and the earthly society of people who inherit it . would you not agree that the earth is a great place to be especially when no one in opposition to Gods purpose is around? the earth even now is good even though many things are not inline with God , war, death, crime, sickness , ect, ect, all of those things are out of line with Gods original purpose for the earth ,so when the earth is filled with the knowledge of Jehovah it will be the best ever. bring it on

(Isaiah 60:18) “No more will violence be heard in your land, despoiling or breakdown within your boundaries. And you will certainly call your own walls Salvation and your gates Praise.

(Micah 4:4) And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it].

so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.ISAIAH 55;11

WHAT A GREAT HOPE .

mee · 12-03-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Notice Mee that you have taken to putting your own words in normal size script and your bible quotes in a much larger one. I wish to thank you for it. It allows me to clearly see that which I can safely ignore.

Tao

things are no always as they seem

mee · 12-03-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Moses, the fellow G!D sat down with to write the first 5 books, the guy that led his people outta Egypt...no box seat...nor that guy he renamed Israel, nor Abraham..

UP!

it will be great to meet these faithful ones in the paradise earth , and they will be able to see just how Gods purpose all worked out over the years . and i am sure that the Almighty will use them yet again in the paradise earth .
Moses’ personality was equally outstanding, for “the man Moses was by far the meekest Or, “the most mild-tempered.” of all the men who were upon the surface of the ground.” (Num. 12:3)

flowperson · 12-07-2007, 06:28 PM

All kidding aside about the Scientology church near me having a "now hiring" sign in their window, I find this article disturbing in a supposedly democratic global environment. Is this a case of Orwellian definitions of one entity being "more equal" than another ?

Either a nation advocates tolerance through and through, or it doesn't. Of course Germany has especially had a burr up its backside for some years now when it comes to Scientology. But I bet they'd still allow "TOMKAT" and John Travolta to come and visit their luxury resorts whenever. How does one define "hypocracy" let alone "democracy" ?

If it's good enough for Los Angeles, why isn't it for Berlin?

flow....

http://my.earthlink.net/article/int?...12071623050887

Quahom1 · 12-07-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

And the paradox is, Mee, that once we acknowledge our separateness through sin, we are reconciled.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:10

Better to confess to an emptiness and call upon Him to provide, than profess a spiritual abundance offering no vein for the inspirative force to pour in.

God Bless,

Br.Bruce

IOW...open the door, and let Him in, before He stops knocking and moves on...

Bruce Michael · 12-07-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

All kidding aside about the Scientology church near me having a "now hiring" sign in their window, I find this article disturbing in a supposedly democratic global environment.

Hi Flow,
What if they voted Scientology out? That's democracy.

I think it would be better if all religions were banned from running money making businesses. If they run a business then register as a business. It would certainly sort the wheat out from the chaff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Is this a case of Orwellian definitions of one entity being "more equal" than another ?

Either a nation advocates tolerance through and through, or it doesn't. Of course Germany has especially had a burr up its backside for some years now when it comes to Scientology. But I bet they'd still allow "TOMKAT" and John Travolta to come and visit their luxury resorts whenever. How does one define "hypocracy" let alone "democracy" ?

If it's good enough for Los Angeles, why isn't it for Berlin?

flow....

Scientology has a history
Scientology's Secret Service: 2. The Guardian Office

Scientology's Secret Service
The Guardian Office (1966-83)
20 Apr 73 - SNOW WHITE PROGRAM

Quote:

Operation Snow White was a systematic attempt to infiltrate and steal classified files on Scientology from governments all over the world. Its exposure by the FBI in 1977 led to the arrest and imprisonment of the Guardian Office's senior leadership in the US and Canada.

Mary Sue Hubbard (Hubbard's wife) et al eventually went to jail.

I am a huge supporter of religious freedom.
I am a huge supporter of the freedom of the individual to be free from control by religious organisations.
It becomes difficult when money is involved. It becomes difficult when religions seek to control the State, and get involved in politics.

God Bless,
Br.Bruce

flowperson · 12-07-2007, 10:43 PM

Br. Bruce...I believe that you misconstrued my intent. Pursuit of operating funding has been going on in Catholic parishes all of my life. And today it's very prevalent in fundamentalist oriented megachurches.

If the Scientology Church's money pursuits were the only issue in Germany, then why not question raffles at St. Greenback Parrish, or bingo games in their basement on wed. evenings. In the US we have McDonalds' operating in megachurch lobbies.

If it's only the money thingy then alter the constitution to prohibit certain money vacuuming activities.Treat all churches fairly and equally. Constitutionally banning or excluding an entire Church of a specific denomiation is discriminatory by definition. What's acceptable for one behavior should be acceptable for all behaviors. To me it's all a matter of fairness across the board. I am not advocating Scientology per se or what they do or what they stand for.

flow....

Bruce Michael · 12-07-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Br. Bruce...I believe that you misconstrued my intent. Pursuit of operating funding has been going on in Catholic parishes all of my life. And today it's very prevalent in fundamentalist oriented megachurches.

If the Scientology Church's money pursuits were the only issue in Germany, then why not question raffles at St. Greenback Parrish, or bingo games in their basement on wed. evenings. In the US we have McDonalds' operating in megachurch lobbies.

If it's only the money thingy then alter the constitution to prohibit certain money vacuuming activities.Treat all churches fairly and equally. Constitutionally banning or excluding an entire Church of a specific denomiation is discriminatory by definition. What's acceptable for one behavior should be acceptable for all behaviors. To me it's all a matter of fairness across the board. I am not advocating Scientology per se or what they do or what they stand for.

flow....

I don't see anything wrong with churches receiving free will donations to support their activities. A "fee for service" is another thing- that is a commercial arrangement.

And then there is the issue of charity. A good church will seek to help the needy- not just its own members but all who are needy in the world.

No it's not just the money. Religions must also obey the law of the land- and that is what's at issue in Belgium:

Worldandnation: Belgium builds case against Scientology

And so, the authorities have gathered a case.
What have the Secret Service in Germany discovered?

We need to see the evidence before making a judgement.

As I said before we must protect the freedom of religions, but also those religions should afford the same freedom to their followers. That means full disclosure of the organisation's history and structure, where their money goes, what happens to members' private information etc. Can they freely leave without pressure? Can they get a refund?

These things should be enshrined in State law.

-Br.Bruce

flowperson · 12-08-2007, 03:52 PM

Hey Bro. Bruce...I really do agree with much of what you are saying, but the fact remains that in most constitutional democracies, legislating belief is verbotten. The actions which the German and Belgian Governments are undertaking seem to be bordering on discrimination activities. A fine line to balance upon.

flow....

mee · 12-11-2007, 09:36 AM

Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.
Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. matthew 24;45-47

Jehovahs witnesses are fed from Jesus , because of their FAITHFULNESS, and it is always at the proper time , and Jesus is giving them ALL HIS BELONGINGS, so rather than being fed by men they are fed by Jesus . and it is really GOOD spiritual food. no manmade thoughts in sight.

Quahom1 · 12-11-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.
Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. matthew 24;45-47

Jehovahs witnesses are fed from Jesus , because of their FAITHFULNESS, and it is always at the proper time , and Jesus is giving them ALL HIS BELONGINGS, so rather than being fed by men they are fed by Jesus . and it is really GOOD spiritual food. no manmade thoughts in sight.

Didn't know you were slaves. I thought the term was faithful "servant"...

mee · 12-11-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Didn't know you were slaves. I thought the term was faithful "servant"...

Jesus is their master, and in turn the faithful ones feed mee

(domestic)and yes they are faithful that is why Jesus has blessed them with all his belongings especially in this time of the end .

Quahom1 · 12-12-2007, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus is their master, and in turn the faithful ones feed mee

(domestic)and yes they are faithful that is why Jesus has blessed them with all his belongings especially in this time of the end .

I try to do right by Jesus, but I am no SLAVE to anyone Mee. And any GOD that attempts to call me a slave, just lost a faithful man...

mee · 12-12-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I try to do right by Jesus, but I am no SLAVE to anyone Mee. And any GOD that attempts to call me a slave, just lost a faithful man...

thats because you are thinking that the slave is an individual ,but the slave is a class of people not an individual .

the slave was serving spiritual food back in the first century and according to Jesus would still be doing so when he arrived. (in 1914)

not even Methuselah lived that long!—Genesis 5:27.

yes there is a composite slave

Their servitude is voluntary and stems from their love for the Master.

For example, the Bible writers Paul, James, Peter, and Jude identified themselves as slaves of God and of Christ. (Titus 1:1; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:1; Jude 1) Paul reminded the Thessalonian Christians that they had “turned to God from [their] idols to slave for a living and true God.” (1 Thessalonians 1:9)

Christian slavery is based on love for God. When we come to know and love the true and living God, we are moved to serve him “with all [our] heart and all [our] soul.” (Deuteronomy 10:12, 13)
A slave has been defined as “a person who is the legal property of another or others and is bound to absolute obedience.

As a class that is what the slave class is like, they are obedient to God and christ because of LOVE

but thinking about us ,Jesus said: “Whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave.” (Matthew 20:26, 27) As Jesus’ followers, all of us are slaves.