Left behind Rapture Interview - Page 2

taijasi · 10-18-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom

LOL, Dor did not invent the term "New Age", to put a spin on old ways...but then, you knew that.

No ... but the irony is, that the effort to bring to Light the Ancient Wisdom, receives this moniker.

Ah well, truth is stranger than fiction.

Namaskar,

andrew

Quahom1 · 10-18-2006, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

No ... but the irony is, that the effort to bring to Light the Ancient Wisdom, receives this moniker.

Ah well, truth is stranger than fiction.

Namaskar,

andrew

Actually the truth is better than fiction. BTW you are attacking...not like you Taij.

Dor · 10-18-2006, 03:33 AM

Actually it is just not as veiled as usual.

taijasi · 10-18-2006, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Actually the truth is better than fiction. BTW you are attacking...not like you Taij.

I am attacking nothing, Q. I am pointing out the irony that what was Ancient, even in Christ's day gets labeled `New Age.' Did not Christ come to fulfil Ancient Prophecies?

If so, then whose Prophecies were these? Some bunch of dudes sittin' around with nothing better to do than make up stories? I guess the "foretold in the Heavens" bit is just 20/20 hindsight, isn't it. And those funny magi people, what with all the traveling from afar - they read about Christ's birth in the local gazette.

That they did have a source for their Wisdom, that this had, and still has, everything to do with both astronomy (a science) and astrology (equally a science, though this is debatable), and that Christianity 2100 years ago looked a whole lot different than Christianity today - this is part of my point. Yet I would come back to the fact that this stuff was Ancient, long before Christ showed up on the scene.

If I am picking a bone here, it is because there are folks who thrive on making others feel unwelcome. The sign out front says, "Ya'll come on in." The fine print says, "Check your own ideas, understanding, and in fact, anything that we don't agree with, AT THE DOOR."

If that weren't so, then why is ANYthing I say "twisting," while I get NO refutation of my quoting Luke 22:10.

Indeed, Dor, et al, why is it, that I can quote PLENTY of Scripture, give you my interpretation, and my understanding, yet I see paltry reply by way of a counter argument, refutation, or in fact ANYTHING besides, "No, that's not what it means."

Fine. If it doesn't have anything to do with Aquarius, which has always been symbolized by the water-bearer, this dating back LONG before Christ's time, and such archetypal symbolism existing in several other cultures ... then SHOW me.

I don't mind a debate. Discussion, too is, interesting. But when the fundies start a'thumpin', and have only "twist twist twist" to say in response ... well! Yes, there is an attack going on, but I'm on the receiving end. The attack being made is because the conservative choke-hold, the effort to assert and/or maintain a feeling of authority, even superiority, is being questioned.

I QUESTION your interpretation. I question that of ANY person who claims to have absolute truth. If you assert this, then it doesn't matter that you may APPEAL to the Bible, or to Papal Dictate, as your basis. You have stated something that IS, by its very assertion - UP FOR DEBATE.

Now ... if THIS is not the forum suitable for debating, or discussing, the notion that "Christianity, Christians, the Church, or A Church, is in possession of the absolute truth," then my humble and sincerest apologies for ruffling your feathers. Please kindly direct me to the forum, discussion board, or online community where people do NOT feel - that they are in possession of the absolute truth, relative to Christianity and Christ's message ... and I will see if we can get any "action" there.

Notice that if we just go round and round and round in circles, the action can indeed continue ... but we don't really get anywhere, do we?

If anything, I have chosen to expand this post - and say a few more words than I have intended - because I hope it will help ILLUSTRATE that yes, things are still a bit amiss at CR, when it comes to ... man, I don't know what.

Organization? Pehaps. But doesn't it come right back down to - Careful where you step, chips and eggshells are scattered around - and BROTHER watch out! Tulips, on tiptoe here - DON'T PISS OFF the conservative Christans.

I bite my tongue ... as verily, I am in the lion's den. Last time I checked around here, THIS lion seems to be all outta gum.

What goes around, comes around. It's fun to play lion, isn't it. So much easier than being torn to shreds.

You know, ASLAN comes to mind. I hear his roar, but I also know how soft is His paw.

Christ said, "I bring not peace, but a sword." If we understand this, can we not see that the sword cleaves truth from illusion?

You say you understand? Ah. I say the same. Will we meet in the middle?

I dunno. Sometimes I'm not sure people are meant to agree. And in a way, that's the rest of my point. `Discussion welcome, unless you wish to contend the status quo.' Consider the famous poem of Pastor Martin Niemöller:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

You can keep shoving everything that "doesn't fit" over onto the Liberal Xianity board, the Esoteric Xianity board, and eventually, you can insist that "this is not Christianity at all." And you will simply spend more, and more time, trying to define what this thing is - which really amounts to lines, drawn in the sand ...

I have drawn these lines before. Once, they looked like this:

If, these days, they look like this ...

... then it is because our planet has been turning, our world has been progressing, and because Christ's Indications to us have all come to pass.

I do seek, to enter into the House. Twelve Gates to the Father's House ...

and that is SCIENCE. It is not up for debate. We may discuss the meaning, and look at how far back Humanity understood this in antiquity. But we cannot deny that this was known, in Christ's day, or that He taught it. To do so, is like debating heliocentrism. Or did we invent that theory since Galileo?

One day, the lines we draw in the sand may look like this:

Keeping the peace is one thing. I believe in that - or in helping to establish a peace, where formerly there was none. But sometimes, a thing needs to be said. MANY things ... may need to be said. And if a few feathers are ruffled in the process, then it will be a learning experience, and growth will become possible. A growth, I must point out, which is not likely, if we never consider new ideas, or even different interpretations of familiar ideas.

If I want to talk about chakras, I'll take it to esoteric, new age, magicK, or comparative. Details about esoteric Buddhism ... likewise, can be discussed on various board, and often will have no relevance here.

To offer a commentary on Luke 22:10, and to point out the recurring astrological-astronomical motif of the Aquarian water-bearer, along with the ICHTHYS-Pisces fishes, the `Promised Lamb' (ram) of Aries and the `golden calf' of Taurus ... deserves either refutation, or - if nothing else - then either disagreement, or silence.

To hear, "twist twist twist," and then be accused of "attack"???

Methinks you have confused quoting Scripture with flying a plane into a building ... while Dor is apparently practicing the fine art of bartending, and working to get the lemon trick down pat.

That is all I can make of it ...

Love and Light,

andrew

Faithfulservant · 10-18-2006, 04:35 AM

SS flashback hehe

Sorry I usually disregard most things you say but that was a long rant and I was reading it in spite of myself. I also apologize for bursting your bubble but Im not going to bow before your greatness and bountiful wisdom... and Im certainly not going to declare you god or godlike or even part of the trinity human or divine... Truth be told Ive pretty much taken Pauls advice and will now return to it..

taijasi · 10-18-2006, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

SS flashback hehe

Sorry I usually disregard most things you say but that was a long rant and I was reading it in spite of myself. I also apologize for bursting your bubble but Im not going to bow before your greatness and bountiful wisdom... and Im certainly not going to declare you god or godlike or even part of the trinity human or divine... Truth be told Ive pretty much taken Pauls advice and will now return to it..

And of Faith, Charity and Love ... yes, one of these is the greatest. We are on the same page there.

You may think my modesty false, but I have no wisdom ... unless I speak it of God. Christ said the same. I am working on bridging the gulf - between my present, un-Christed state, and that as demonstrated by Christ Jesus. I'm glad that you can spot my imperfections. Every now and then, I just feel certain that I can spot that imperfection in another, too - despite myself.

But I don't see that as fault, not even when it is pride ... or an occasional feeling of "know-it-all-ness" that you may think I exude. I cannot deny my pride, but I can, like Socrates, proclaim myself a fool - since I certainly know enough, to know how little I know.

No matter where I stand, there will always be those above, or ahead ... and those below, or behind. I have a responsibility to both. And this is something I feel is true, of every man, woman and child - on planet Earth.

May the Christ Light shine forth ... and His Love enfold -

Their hearts and minds,

And yours and mine.

Salam Alaikum ... Shalom,

taijasi barabba

Dor · 10-18-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Fine. If it doesn't have anything to do with Aquarius, which has always been symbolized by the water-bearer, this dating back LONG before Christ's time, and such archetypal symbolism existing in several other cultures ... then SHOW me.

So let me get this straight any guy who has a pitcher of water has to do with Aquarius. Hmmm nope.

The Persic version has more to it..."upon his back"; for which he had been to some well, or fountain in the city, in order to mix with wine at the passover: follow him into the house where he entereth in;

That was quite simply a test of faith and obedience for the disciples and shows the omniscience and deity of Christ.

I have never claimed absolute truth.....I have never claimed Christ gives me little tidbits all for myself.

I also do not claim to be God, God in the making, God to come or any way it is said or implied. All eyes will not see you and all knees shall not bow.

I claim the Bible and the Lord Jesus Christ.....I do not need all the other crap people want.

Do I have absolute truth....no there is only a few things I know as truth

Ro 7:24 -O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Among a few other things which are all found in the Bible.

taijasi · 10-18-2006, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

So let me get this straight any guy who has a pitcher of water has to do with Aquarius. Hmmm nope.

The Persic version has more to it..."upon his back"; for which he had been to some well, or fountain in the city, in order to mix with wine at the passover: follow him into the house where he entereth in;

That was quite simply a test of faith and obedience for the disciples and shows the omniscience and deity of Christ.

I have never claimed absolute truth.....I have never claimed Christ gives me little tidbits all for myself.

I also do not claim to be God, God in the making, God to come or any way it is said or implied. All eyes will not see you and all knees shall not bow.

I claim the Bible and the Lord Jesus Christ.....I do not need all the other crap people want.

Do I have absolute truth....no there is only a few things I know as truth

Ro 7:24 -O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Among a few other things which are all found in the Bible.

Thank you, finally, for a refutation ... or at least for addressing the question of the significance of this Scripture. As for "Gods in the making" - it's that crap called the Bible, and Christ's own words, wherein He Himself quotes God's earlier revelation - that I base this belief on, in part.

“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?” (John 10:34, in reference to Psalm 82:6)

You may as well quote the following verse, Psalm 82:7, if you like, though I would question, whom do you contest - me or Christ Jesus? Or the Psalmist???

"But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

How can this be? We, who are "Gods, and all of [us] children of the Most High," are yet said to "die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

I am curious as to what you might say to this. How do you interpret it?

As for my own understanding - which I think jibes quite well with the rest of what Christ teaches - I take this to mean that we have fallen into generation. We, who are in essence Spirit (is this not implied by the Psalm?), have clothed flesh around ourselves, and are now subject to the laws of this Earth (in the scientific sense, though certainly also in purely legal terms, as well as those moral laws - which are not suspended simply because Spirit descends).

I think that addressing the question of what Christ meant when He quoted this Scripture ... will open insights for us into both our origin, and our future. A rock cannot become a tree. But an acorn, can. And with the right conditions, it does. That is simply its nature. Rocks change too, but not into trees.

What is it, into which wo/man is changing? Toward what are growing? What is - our highest potential?

We may answer that differently, even quoting some of the same Biblical passages in our response. And that is okay!

I believe each of us answers this question, and interprets God's Teaching(s), as best we able, assuming we do indeed want to know what is in store - for ourselves, our Loved ones, yet also for the rest of the world.

It is only natural that we should wish to help others. There is something - at least in my own witnessing and experience - about a good number of people in this world, which just makes them naturally want to help others, to extend themselves to those who are less fortunate, and to improve conditions ... for everyone!

I have been fortunate enough to come across, even spend some time with, such people, firsthand. This ... is why I believe what I believe.

Not because it is written in some book somewhere. Or because I have heard great Teachers utter this same truth, though that may also be so.

Words on a page - any page - can at best, corroborate, perhaps add depth to, an understanding that I already have. If I come across new ideas, then they but awaken ... my ability to recognize, understand, and testify to - God's Truth, or Holy Wisdom.

The Buddha held up a single flower - and made a sermon of it. Could it be that part of what He was saying was that the flower, as the lily, is beautiful - even more glorious than Solomon's splendor?

I think so.

Could it also be - that there is a Wisdom, an amazing Intelligence, and a Power that we can scarce comprehend ... evident within the design, and the marvel, of that flower?

I think so.

The Wisdom of God, imho, has no boundaries. Nor His Love. Nor His Might.

Therefore, I cannot say - what God can and cannot do ...
If in doubt, I suspect He CAN.

Does He?

I dunno. I think it varies.

If that's abstract, well then, isn't the rapture kind of abstract too? This is a song about Alice - err, I mean, a thread about the rapture, isn't it?

Love and Light,

andrew/taijasi

taijasi · 10-18-2006, 05:27 AM

And btw, Dor and Faithful, thanks for meeting me on common ground! It's a nice feeling.

cheers,

andrew

Dor · 10-18-2006, 07:42 PM

This is during the time they were wanting to stone Jesus.
They wanted to stone him for blasphemy. The law they thought not only justified but sanctified the act of stoning they wanted to do.
The verse you like to quote is his reply to their accusation of him.
He used their law against them. You need to continue reading it.
He called them gods to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken. The word of God's commision came to them appointing them to their job as judges and therefore they are called gods. Exo 22:28. Magistracy is a divine institution; and magistrates are God's delegates so scripture called them gods. He uses it to show that they were very rash and unreasonable to condemn him as a blaspemer for calling himself the Son of God, when they called their rulers so.

Not to show that each individual person was, is or will become a god.

Quahom1 · 10-18-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

This is during the time they were wanting to stone Jesus.
They wanted to stone him for blasphemy. The law they thought not only justified but sanctified the act of stoning they wanted to do.
The verse you like to quote is his reply to their accusation of him.
He used their law against them. You need to continue reading it.
He called them gods to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken. The word of God's commision came to them appointing them to their job as judges and therefore they are called gods. Exo 22:28. Magistracy is a divine institution; and magistrates are God's delegates so scripture called them gods. He uses it to show that they were very rash and unreasonable to condemn him as a blaspemer for calling himself the Son of God, when they called their rulers so.

Not to show that each individual person was, is or will become a god.

Could not stone, nor brake a bone of the One Most High...it wasn't in the word...how amazing that is, if one thinks about it.