Lucifer&War in Heaven

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. REVELATION 12;7-9




This battle in heaven happened afer Jesus was given great aurthority Daniel 7;13-14 and it happened in 1914 when Jesus was given his rightful kingship . thats why since 1914 demonic influence has become more on the earth ,its because satan is angry and knows that he only has a short period of time left before he is locked away for a 1000 years

Umm, considering that the passages noted above were written in the past tense, and considering that the serpent was already on earth in the garden during the temptation of man, I'd say 1914 is a weeeeeeeeeee bit off. (That's Revelation and Genesis, crossed referenced). Deuterotomy also discusses briefly the fallen watchers and their offspring, which most believe to be the 1/3rd that fell from grace (again, a long time ago).

The remainder of the "visions" of John in Revelation are written in the future imperfect tense, which does lend creedance to these "prophecies" having yet to take place...

some thing to consider...

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Umm, considering that the passages noted above were written in the past tense, and considering that the serpent was already on earth in the garden during the temptation of man, I'd say 1914 is a weeeeeeeeeee bit off. (That's Revelation and Genesis, crossed referenced). Deuterotomy also discusses briefly the fallen watchers and their offspring, which most believe to be the 1/3rd that fell from grace (again, a long time ago).

The remainder of the "visions" of John in Revelation are written in the future imperfect tense, which does lend creedance to these "prophecies" having yet to take place...

some thing to consider...

before 1914 satan was sometime on the earth and sometime in the heaven , and as you say he was in the garden of eden , but after 1914 he was not allowed back into heaven any more he was cast out, so he is down here angry as can be . he cannot attack Gods kingdom up there any more so he is out to be in opposition to anyone down here who is for the kingdom ,and he is out to stop people putting their trust in Gods heavenly kingdom. and he is out to put people into doing things out of line with Gods ways .

but not for much longer because Jesus has the symbolic key to lock him away for 1000 years ,and then there will be no more opposition and Gods kingdom can rule without any opposition . we are now well along into the book of revelation and many things have been happening in this time of the end since 1914.

[mee]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

yes, but it doesn't especially concern me, as a jew, what it says in the NT, because as far as i'm concerned it's not "scripture". not for me at any rate. so it may prove something to you, but it certainly doesn't for me.

b'shalom

bananabrain

i find that the hebrew scriptures and the Greek scriptures harmonize throughout and it all fits into place .

[bananabrain]

well, bully for you.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[bob x]

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus Christ said of him: "That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him." (Joh 8:44;
1Jo 3:8) Jesus here shows that Satan was once in the truth, but forsook it.

??? That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Jesus said.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

before 1914 satan was sometime on the earth and sometime in the heaven , and as you say he was in the garden of eden , but after 1914 he was not allowed back into heaven any more he was cast out, so he is down here angry as can be . he cannot attack Gods kingdom up there any more so he is out to be in opposition to anyone down here who is for the kingdom ,and he is out to stop people putting their trust in Gods heavenly kingdom. and he is out to put people into doing things out of line with Gods ways .

but not for much longer because Jesus has the symbolic key to lock him away for 1000 years ,and then there will be no more opposition and Gods kingdom can rule without any opposition . we are now well along into the book of revelation and many things have been happening in this time of the end since 1914.

Now that is definitely not biblical. Lucifer cast out from heaven post 1914?

It would be one thing if JWs used their own doctrine for this set of circumstances...but to try to convey the bible as the prophetic where for all for the JW faith and apply specific dates no less... is ludicrous.

No one knows the end, but the Father, and He has made no one privy to that date...

[mee]

Originally Posted by bob x

??? That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Jesus said.

YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. John 8;44

He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.1 john 3;8



from the beginning of his rebellion satan has been sinning

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Now that is definitely not biblical. Lucifer cast out from heaven post 1914?

It would be one thing if JWs used their own doctrine for this set of circumstances...but to try to convey the bible as the prophetic where for all for the JW faith and apply specific dates no less... is ludicrous.

No one knows the end, but the Father, and He has made no one privy to that date...

he wasnt cast out for good until 1914 , he cant get back in now . and as you mentioned ,no one knows the day or hour when Jehovah will step into the affairs of man and put an end to human goverments Daniel 2;44. the heavenly kingdom is all set up and ready to go into action ,Jesus is waiting for Jehovah to say the time

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Now that is definitely not biblical. Lucifer cast out from heaven post 1914?

Jesus was made king and that was in 1914 , and then he got rid of the rebels . out you go

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Manji2012

My question is:

Where does this scripture or story, whatever it is called correctly, come from? Which book? Where can I find it?

Here it is. It's in the Apocrypha: Gospel of Bartholomew.

[mee]

And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. REVELATION 12 ;7-9