Marijuana

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Thank you Nancy !

flow....

*virtual high five*

lol....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

Ya think? I always thought the variety and quality would go through the roof while the price would go through the floor. Even if they taxed it 400% I'd say the price would be less than 25% of what it is now.you think your cutter will make it that far inland? Gotta watch that judgement thing Q, comes back to bite us sometimes..

Nothing to do with judgement Wil. But it does have something to do with the law of the people. Without law, there is chaos. chaos kills countries. This my friend is where you and I are at odds. Gotta watch what you sign into that law thing Wil, comes back to bite the few of us sometimes....

[17th Angel]

The law of the people? lmfao.... No, the law of goverments and corrupt politicians who break every f'in law in the book yet sit there shouting out judgements and punishments upon others.... It is no law of the people... They'd love you to THINK without law there would be chaos...... Every other animal seems to do just fine without being opressed and put under some fat cat's thumb.... Without all these laws and ideas of "society" we'd all be better off..

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

The law of the people? lmfao.... No, the law of goverments and corrupt politicians who break every f'in law in the book yet sit there shouting out judgements and punishments upon others.... It is no law of the people... They'd love you to THINK without law there would be chaos...... Every other animal seems to do just fine without being opressed and put under some fat cat's thumb.... Without all these laws and ideas of "society" we'd all be better off..

Not in this country. The law to make weed illegal (along with cocaine and heroin), was enacted in the 1930s, at the behest of the populace.

Whether you agree or not, the people are the law in the United States. Just ask Nixon, Carter, and Clinton.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Not in this country. The law to make weed illegal (along with cocaine and heroin), was enacted in the 1930s, at the behest of the populace.

um...er...as discussed it wasn't the populace in the 30's that initiated the laws...nor was it due to an inherent drug problem. As with our temporary prohibition on alcohol the issue was exacerbated by the laws.

It was simple. Hearst the newspaper king just cornered the pulp market with a back doors deal by supporting politicians and having rights to the national forests. Hemp if legal would have destroyed his intended profits, simple solution, make hemp illegal, but how, vilify the evil weed. There was no marijuana problem at the time. As repeatedly discussed, Budwieser causes more problems, when it comes to disease, crime, domestic disturbances, car accidents.... Due to its criminality the police, coast guard, courts, jails, etc are over burdened with minutia and not tending to more important issues...they are all pawns of those who have profited from this rediculousness for decades. Not only that but if there wasn't this law these folks would not be the 'enemy' to virtually half the population in this regard.

[flowperson]

Well let's see now. My history book tells me that the people were very simply propagandized in the 1930's into believing that hemp was evil . First through the release and wide distrubution of the film Reefer Madness. Second, the Federal Laws drastically restricting and prohibiting the use and distribution of hemp products was the result of the work of one lawmaker, Rep. Harry Anslinger of Pennsylvania, and not at the popular behest of the people of the U.S.

About the only place that smokable cannabis was actively being used in culture at the time was in the music business, especially among African American musicians. I know first hand about all that since my dad was a jazz musician in the 30's.

Now concerning the absence of law equating with chaos. Actually full enforcement of the spirit and letter of laws prohibiting anything actually turns into a situation where excessive ordering and fascism is most likely to establish itself. Any system that is regulated and ordered to its greatest limits will always fail over time and pull a lot of innocent people down with its failures. Prohibition of alcohol after WW I was an excellent example of this, and to boot it enabled the establishment and rapid growth of organized crime nationwide.

Now I'm not saying that a total lack of laws and their enforcement is a good thing. That situation leads quickly to disorder and anarchy on a wide scale. The trick in writing prohibitive statutes and providing for their enforcement is to establish a balancing act such as happens naturally in natural systems.

The basic fact that we've got six times as many African Americans in the prison systems for drug violations than white Americans is an indication that the drug laws are being implimented more for the profit motives of business elites and the demonization of a sector of our population which is virtually powerless when it comes to influencing lawmaking and law enforcement. This is how the class struggle and racism wars are fought these days in America. It might help if more than 85% of the lawmakers and their supporting establishment in the U.S weren't lawyers.

My two cents.

flow....

[wil]

Originally Posted by flowperson

The basic fact that we've got six times as many African Americans in the prison systems for drug violations than white Americans is an indication that the drug laws are being implimented more for the profit motives of business elites and the demonization of a sector of our population which is virtually powerless when it comes to influencing lawmaking and law enforcement. This is how the class struggle and racism wars are fought these days in America.

Namaste Flow but whoah now, what are you saying? Are you trying to imply that drug use is spread fairly equally across ethnic borders?? Do you think as many rich and middle class folks use drugs as the poor?

Blasphemy watch yourself man, what are you thinkin, again?? Can't you recall the trouble that has got you in in the past?

Originally Posted by flow

Prohibition of alcohol after WW I was an excellent example of this, and to boot it enabled the establishment and rapid growth of organized crime nationwide.

oops, you forgot to mention the rise in power of that famous Kennedy family...

[flowperson]

Hey wil, I'm just a natural born blasphemer. And i'll bet my patootie that lots of lawmakers have a heavy chunk of CCA stock in their portfolios.

I did say organized crime didn't I ? Back in the day there was a fine line between illegal import/export of certain liquids businesses and organized crime. It is where the family's bankroll came from isn't it ? And I might add with the blessing of their church and Mr. Roosevelt. It was all about the money, as it still is.

flow....

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by flowperson

It was all about the money, as it still is.

For the unlucky majority of mankind it shall always be that way..

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

um...er...as discussed it wasn't the populace in the 30's that initiated the laws...nor was it due to an inherent drug problem. As with our temporary prohibition on alcohol the issue was exacerbated by the laws.

It was simple. Hearst the newspaper king just cornered the pulp market with a back doors deal by supporting politicians and having rights to the national forests. Hemp if legal would have destroyed his intended profits, simple solution, make hemp illegal, but how, vilify the evil weed. There was no marijuana problem at the time. As repeatedly discussed, Budwieser causes more problems, when it comes to disease, crime, domestic disturbances, car accidents.... Due to its criminality the police, coast guard, courts, jails, etc are over burdened with minutia and not tending to more important issues...they are all pawns of those who have profited from this rediculousness for decades. Not only that but if there wasn't this law these folks would not be the 'enemy' to virtually half the population in this regard.

The topane alkaloid in cocaine blocks dopamine storage. It also must be taken in larger quantities to maintain the same euphoric effect and dramatically increases the chances of heart attack, kidney failure, excessive histamine release, hallucinations and hyperthermia.

Long term use of Tetrahydrcannabinal causes fatty deposits to accumulate in the brain, slowing brain function signficantly over time, as well as reducing nerons in the hippocampus to that of someone twice the user's age. It also can cause damge to the immune system, the lungs, and five joints is the same in carcinogenic chemicals as a pack of unfiltered cigarretes.

Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) is synthesizd from morphine and is twice as trong and causes resperator depression. It is also highly addictive and stimulates craving to the point where it literally changes the brain (nuerochemical and molecular). Months and years after withdrawl from Heroin regularly find former users with cravings. Though Heroin may not kill the user, it is known to kill fetuses of the user.

v/r

Q

[wil]

(Heroin)...

Originally Posted by Quahom1

...cocaine ...Tetrahydrcannabinal ...

Namaste Q,

While you'd love to divert the marijuana legality discussion to coke or heroin it isn't relevant.

However if you'd like to compare the destruction of braincells, internal organs, or families or the amount of trouble servicemen get into in foreign ports between marijuana (illegal) and alcohol (legal)...um...er...cheers...salute...bottoms up!

[China Cat Sunflower]

The only way to keep the government dis involved with pot is to keep it illegal. It's better this way. They can't tax it and they can't control it. Plus, it makes being in the counter culture easy and affordable! The government can lick nuts as far as I'm concerned. I'll do anything damn thing I please in the comfort of my own home and hot tub, and there isn't anything they can do about it. (ginormous raspberry implied)

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

(Heroin)...Namaste Q,

While you'd love to divert the marijuana legality discussion to coke or heroin it isn't relevant.

However if you'd like to compare the destruction of braincells, internal organs, or families or the amount of trouble servicemen get into in foreign ports between marijuana (illegal) and alcohol (legal)...um...er...cheers...salute...bottoms up!

Actually no. I was diverting nothing. I simply explained the long term effects of the three drugs you brought up, to include marajuana. As far as alcohol, start a movement to have it banned. They almost have tobacco banned. These like the three drugs mentioned above can hurt people. In addition to the user, they harm society and people around the user.

They also often do something else ... that is bring out some of the worst in man.

v/r

Q

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

These like the three drugs mentioned above can hurt people. In addition to the user, they harm society and people around the user.

Again, bull.

I smoke/grow from the comfort of my own home, I am not hurting anyone. Every heard the term A man's house is his castle? I am the lord of my castle, why should others have any say over what goes on behind my doors? They don't... And they shant.....

[flowperson]

Again I must fall back upon the simple biological fact that our brains, and the brains of our ancestors back into prehistory, were designed and made to facilitate receptors for cannabis, opioids, and alkaloids in their natural forms. This was an obvious adaptation by the human brain to be able to use natural substances to relieve the stresses of everyday life.

The problems with the soul-destroying drug usage of today came about when humans distilled and refined the substances in order to make MORE MONEY through its sale and distrubution. More addiction, more chemical dependency, more sales. And all indicators point to eighteenth century British traders in the south of China as the starting place for all of this.

flow....