Marijuana

[Spazola]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I think from the top of my memory Cannabis has three strands of cancer that can effect humans, but I myself have never heard of or experienced a death or overdose from Cannabis, within my family or friends. Even if it was so, just like cigarettes cause death, I wouldn't give them up either.. Oh and spazola Cannabis is not at all addictive... I laugh alot when I see these people come out with terror tactics about the bad points of cannabis or any other drug... and what it can do and how it effects you, and they themselves have never even touched the stuff, see where I am coming from Spaz? Can I call you spaz? ;/ I have a kitten called spaz. The only addictive drugs I take are Nicotene and caffiene... spelt wrong Weed is great but not addictive!

As I quote a movie called half baked...

*in a drug clinic*
"You come in here with your your sob stories of being addicted to weed, I suck d**k for crack.... When was the last dang time you heard about somebody sucking d**k for weed?!"

Forgive my ignorance....but what is Cannabis???

By the way, I love being called "Spaz", and Half Baked is an awesome movie.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Oh and spazola Cannabis is not at all addictive... I laugh alot when I see these people come out with terror tactics about the bad points of cannabis or any other drug... Weed is great but not addictive!

I think we've had this discussion about "physical" vs "mental" addiction. Bottom line, regular cannabis use can become an addiction.

Also, Quahom raises a very good point is that is often overlooked, and that is that even if cannabis itself is seen as relatively less harmful compared to other drugs (ie, nicotine and alcohol), it still remains an important commodity for very violent criminal gangs.

Also, please refrain from using slang terms for other members unless invited, especially where the meanings can be clearly derogatory.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I think we've had this discussion about "physical" vs "mental" addiction. Bottom line, regular cannabis use can become an addiction.

Some other things which can be psychologically addictive:

Chocolate
Coffee
Tea
Video games
Sex

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Also, Quahom raises a very good point is that is often overlooked, and that is that even if cannabis itself is seen as relatively less harmful compared to other drugs (ie, nicotine and alcohol), it still remains an important commodity for very violent criminal gangs.

and 95% of violent crime committed in the UK is committed within 24 hours of eating bread, should we ban bread?

Has anyone heard of Harry Anslinger, the man who had the drug made illegal
in the first place? This is what he said to congress when he was trying to bad it,

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

- Harry Anslinger, testifying to Congress, 1937

As for the issue of fataities from smoking marijuana, I found a paragraph in wikipedia that siad there have never been any recorded fatalities from cannabis overdose, but when I went to post it today I found that it had changed,

There has only ever been one recored fatal overdose due to cannabis: this was by Lee Maisey in January 2004 in the United Kingdom. The coroner's report states "Death due to cannabis poisoning", although it is generaly considered that it is difficult to achieve a leathal overdose by smoking cannabis, the most effective way, the coroner said, would be to ingest it. It was reported that Maisey smoked about six joints a day. Mr Maisey's blood contained 130 nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml) of the THC metabolite THC-COOH. On the other hand, the newspaper Neue Zuericher Zeitung of Switzerland, on January 28, 2004, reports that the Federal Health Ministry of Switzerland asked Dr. Rudolf Brenneisen, a professor at the department for clinical research at the University of Bern, to review the data of this case. Dr. Brenneisen said that the data of the toxicological analysis and collected by autopsy were "scanty and not conclusive" and that the conclusion 'death by cannabis' intoxication was "not legitimate". Additionally, Dr. Franjo Grotenhermen of the nova-Institute in Cologne, Germany said: "A concentration of 130 ng/ml THC-COOH in blood is a moderate concentration, which may be observed some hours after the use of one or two joints. Heavy regular use of cannabis easily results in THC-COOH concentrations of above 500 ng/ml. Many people use much more cannabis than Mr Maisey did, without any negative consequences."

Although I dont smoke regularly, there have been many times when I have smoked more than six joints in a day.

According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, the LD50, the lethal dose for 50% of tested rats, was 42 milligrams per kilogram of body weight with forced inhalation, equivalent for a 165 lb. male to ingest all of the THC in 21 one-gram cigarettes of maximum-potency (15% THC) cannabis buds, assuming no THC was lost through burning or exhalation. For oral consumption, the LD50 for rats was 1270 mg/kg and 730 mg/kg for males and females, respectively, equivalent to the THC in about a pound of 15% THC cannabis. It would be almost impossible for THC in blood plasma to reach such a level in human cannabis smokers. Only with intravenous administration, a method very rarely or never used by humans, may such a level be possible. Also, some evidence suggests that toxic levels may be higher for humans than for rats.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Some other things which can be psychologically addictive:

Indeed, most anything can be psychologically addictive - but I think pot has definite addictive qualities, though whether these are due to physical or psychological factors I'd put down to playing with semantics. That was an earlier discussion on the topic, though.

Bottom line - as an ex-heavy pot smoker, I'd say from experience and from observing those around me who had difficulty quitting, that the addictive nature of cannabis is certainly present, but easily underplayed by pot smokers.

Then again, one of the basic issues of addiction is denying that an addiction exists in the first place. So any addict telling me they can quit anytime sounds the same whether it's about nicotine, cocaine, alcohol, or pot.

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

and 95% of violent crime committed in the UK is committed within 24 hours of eating bread, should we ban bread?

I don't believe there is a case being made that cannabis causes violent crime in the users - but try setting up a pot farm in Manchester's Moss Side and see how long it takes before you have a shotgun in your face for dealing on someone else's teritory.

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Has anyone heard of Harry Anslinger, the man who had the drug made illegal
in the first place? This is what he said to congress when he was trying to bad it,

Personally, the testimonial seems to be irrelevant to the thread. A fun historical curiosity.

Although I dont smoke regularly, there have been many times when I have smoked more than six joints in a day.

Amateur.

Six joints isn't really a lot at all - but even still, I would be surprised if any relatively regular user were able to stop for a month if challenged. The counter claim of not wanting to would be easily seen as an addict's response. Whether it is a physical or psychological addiction is a moot point.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

Your war is a sham.

In my view, this is uncalled for. It is one thing to discuss hypotheticals, it is quite another to disparage someone who gives of themselves on a regular basis to support and defend society. Perhaps this is how one feels, that the "war on drugs" is a sham, but to coldly state this to someone who has just expressed the fact he lost a good friend and partner in that very war is the height of insensitivity. The purpose of this place is to respect others beliefs, and that I would presume to include even on this subject. I would greatly prefer if we could maintain civility, even in this emotional subject. At least have the decency to consider where the other person is coming from, and conduct oneself accordingly.

Bottom line, regular ... use can become an addiction.

Maybe I missed something, but isn't that the definition of addiction?

Whether it is a physical or psychological addiction is a moot point.

Touche!

So, I wonder where this leads concerning God? I mean, how does addiction play into how God views us? Is addiction itself the sin, rather than the substance? This leads me back to the intent and motivation behind the use, of any substance.

[Chezz]

big deal,

i smoke about 6 "marijuana ciggaretts" a day and i am fine in shape and healthy, i dont smoke ciggaretts or tabbaco. and this is everyday i cant remember when the last day was when i didnt breath a joint.
speaking of overdosing of cannabis im pretty sure its impossible and that thing on wikpidia is just poppycock.
iv smoke over an ounce of marijuana in one sitting, im not trying to sound all hardcore but i have done it and i all that happend was that i had the best sleep of my life and a good morning the next day. speaking o marijuana whos gonna draw my new tattoo.... check out my post in the lounge "any artists aboard"

read my sig, i belive that cannabis could be a great and important part of scociaty. ( a good thing)

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Spazola

Forgive my ignorance....but what is Cannabis???

By the way, I love being called "Spaz", and Half Baked is an awesome movie.

I think Spaz is an awesome name lol no idea why that and spooky... (another name of one of my kittens) Also just to clear it up, Cannabis = weed, marijuana. Haven't seen halfbaked for ages...


Also, I cannot remeber who, but someone brought up an issue about how the plant itself is a pure gift from God, I would strongly agree... It's uses are seriously, thousands I could sit here for the entire day and still not list all the pro's of the plant. It has helped in many tight spots, such as world war II. For raw material, your (USA) goverment had many farms where they produced it to create rope and bio plastics.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

and that is that even if cannabis itself is seen as relatively less harmful compared to other drugs (ie, nicotine and alcohol), it still remains an important commodity for very violent criminal gangs.

LOL, Oh please? That is one of the most classic cops outs of all time, you hear this all the time.... OK here is an example. (A very insane one to show a point)

You wear red clothes? That is terrible! I cannot believe you do that...

Why whats wrong with red clothes?

They are harmful! like drugs?!

Your comparing my clothes to drugs?

Sure am! Well maybe not as bad as crack-rock but hey violent gangs wear red clothes! Your a bad man and I am now going to label you with others that i call violent gangsters...


It is simply not just.. I know a 70 year old lady who would never harm a fly... she constantly tokes on the plant

[Chezz]

i agreee with 17th angel.

[17th Angel]

*tips his hat to Chezz*

I thank you.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

LOL, Oh please? That is one of the most classic cops outs of all time, you hear this all the time.... OK here is an example. (A very insane one to show a point)

You wear red clothes? That is terrible! I cannot believe you do that...

This is the sort of lack of reality I'm talking about. Yardie Gangs don't deal in red clothes, they shoot people in the back of the head. Appreciate the difference.

I have nothing in particular against cannabis, but a lot of pro-pot arguments are very much in denial of reality. Sort of ironic, really.

[17th Angel]

Yardies? London gangs?

I am speaking of gangs.... Thousands strong... Cities strong, The Bloods.
But then I could go on to say I don't know The Latin Kings.... OH! You wear yellow clothes?
Or the crypts... blue clothes... Or 18... You have tattoos? Then with the yardies you can bring racist remarks into this, Oh your black? There is so much in gangs that can relate to normal, non violent people in society... Infact I don't truly know how the 'Yardies' work but with the bloods.... and 18 and I think the Crypts... It is acceptable for gang members to smoke weed, but if they touch any other drug they are punished. Such as crack it is acceptable to sell it but not to use it because it is addictive and turns you into a mess. Other gangs or groups I.E the Mafia attempt to stay clean of even dealing such drugs. *Shrugs* I dunno just sharing my thoughts.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

This is the sort of lack of reality I'm talking about. Yardie Gangs don't deal in red clothes, they shoot people in the back of the head. Appreciate the difference.

Brian,

Am I understanding your argument here correctly? Are you saying that weed is bad because gangsters sell it?

If weed were legalised, the Yardie Gangs would not be in control of it any more, I could buy it from Tesco instead.

At the moment, if I choose to use it, I am forced to get involved with Yardie Gangs, or the Bloods or the Crypts(sp?) or whatever other unsavoury individuals are selling it.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I have nothing in particular against cannabis, but a lot of pro-pot arguments are very much in denial of reality. Sort of ironic, really.

I do agree with this.

Anyone who says that weed is completely harmless is as in denial as people who smoked tobacco in the 50s and 60s who developed a terrible cough and died at the age of 50 from lung cancer still believing that tobacco was safe.

Every drug has side effects. My argument would be that the side effects of Cannabis are as yet unknown, but apparently not serious enough to justify keeping cannabis illegal. The drug is NOT sufficiently addictive to pose a threat to society (a la heroin). And above all else, it is MY decision.

But there is definately a level of misinformation from the authorities about just how dangerous the drug is, and until this stops, smokers will not listen to ANY warnings.

Did the government ever hear about the boy who cried wolf?

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

At the moment, if I choose to use it, I am forced to get involved with Yardie Gangs, or the Bloods or the Crypts(sp?) or whatever other unsavoury individuals are selling it.

Yes it is spelt Crypts... But anyway, You are not allways getting involved with gangs or even bad people when you purchase weed, I myself grow it, so I do not have to deal with anyone, and at times Rarely I will agree to sell some to someone.... Rarely. I myself am not apart of any gang so yeah. I was going to make another point it was good, but I have forgotten.... thats the short term memory for ya....

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Are you saying that weed is bad because gangsters sell it?

Nope - merely referring my earlier statement:

even if cannabis itself is seen as relatively less harmful compared to other drugs (ie, nicotine and alcohol), it still remains an important commodity for very violent criminal gangs.

This was especially to try and underline Quahom1's earlier statement of losing a good friend, killed over dealing.

Generally, I think a point I'm trying to make is one of balance in the arguments - all too often I feel pro- arguments can become as unbalanced as the anti- arguments.