Marriage

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

We will never be "angels" Simple reason: Salvation is offered to Man, not to angels. Angels were created knowing the fullness of God. Man did not, and is learning. Angels were/are designed to be ministers of God's will, Man was designed to be a companion for God. Read Genesis...

Angels were created whole, man is born of male and female.

According to some beliefs in Judaism, humans are moraly and spiritually superior to angels because - like G-d - humans have a capacity for free will.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

According to some beliefs in Judaism, humans are moraly and spiritually superior to angels because - like G-d - humans have a capacity for free will.

*drops jaw*

Angels don't have free will?

Why were there floods?

What is satan?

What are his bum chums?

Angels... Immortal, can fly, can do fancy light tricks, can walk on water, can walk through walls... Can go out far far far into the universe, do not have to sleep, do not have to eat, do not have to drink... Do not have to breathe, can weild magical powers.... Can go invisible!!! Can teleport! Can morph! Can speak any human language... Doesn't catch illness....

Humans... Erm, well... We think we're smart?

Hell no a man isn't superior... How can you compare lol

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Uhm... Genesis?

I don't think Genesis says Adam was immortal.

Originally Posted by Alex P

Then they gonna have some explaining to do

No ... I think you are? Jesus says one thing, you say He's wrong.

Originally Posted by Alex P

... but I don't claim to have the truth, I don't claim to know it all ... I just think we're all wrong.

I can only smile when people say they don't know it all, but they're infallibly right about what they believe.

Originally Posted by Alex P

Yet we have some truths and traits of the Creator... There is much that proves the ideas and concepts of god as people know are false and just aren't so.. But then there are some ideas/claims and so on that I personally see has to be so.

So basically, what suits you, you believe ... what doesn't suit you, you can dispense with. So basically you decide when God is right or wrong.

I wouldn't take that attitude with Our Lord if you get to meet Him, it won't get you very far.

Originally Posted by Alex P

I don't believe any of your book ... But there are bits in them that I think maybe true, but I don't put stock in any holy book.

So you don't believe the books ... why are you even discussing this? Why are you talking about God when you don't believe it?

Or put another way ... you believe in God, on your terms.

Thomas

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Thomas

So ... the law says one wife ... but in a lifetiume you have had two (one died) ... what happens now?

I'm not arguing that eternal marriage is accurate (I think it isn't, at least, not in the earthly sense of marriage) but the law doesn't say one wife. Unless you mean governmental rather than scriptural law, in which case one could just move to a country where polygamy is allowed.

The problem is, marriage as it is in our society today is a very different animal than in Biblical times/places. And marriage in our society isn't the same as marriage everywhere. So what is the law?

I think the easy answer is if marriage were eternal, then whether you marry multiple partners all at once or spread out over the lifespan, you are a polygamist. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing to be, but it is what it is.

Personally, I think eternal marriage in an earthly sense is not the case because we, individually, are not eternal in an earthly sense. That is, it isn't like me, with how I look and my faults and my personality and all necessarily is the resurrected me in the afterlife. Heck, the me I encounter when in mystical visions isn't the me I know in ordinary consciousness. So, it's likely that while the love between my husband and I will remain, neither of us will be much like we are now, nor will we have need for social contracts such as marriage.

Just my 2 c.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I don't think Genesis says Adam was immortal.


No ... I think you are? Jesus says one thing, you say He's wrong.


I can only smile when people say they don't know it all, but they're infallibly right about what they believe.


So basically, what suits you, you believe ... what doesn't suit you, you can dispense with. So basically you decide when God is right or wrong.

I wouldn't take that attitude with Our Lord if you get to meet Him, it won't get you very far.


So you don't believe the books ... why are you even discussing this? Why are you talking about God when you don't believe it?

Or put another way ... you believe in God, on your terms.

Thomas

Thanks for all the opinions.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I'm not arguing that eternal marriage is accurate (I think it isn't, at least, not in the earthly sense of marriage) but the law doesn't say one wife. Unless you mean governmental rather than scriptural law, in which case one could just move to a country where polygamy is allowed.

The problem is, marriage as it is in our society today is a very different animal than in Biblical times/places. And marriage in our society isn't the same as marriage everywhere. So what is the law?

I think the easy answer is if marriage were eternal, then whether you marry multiple partners all at once or spread out over the lifespan, you are a polygamist. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing to be, but it is what it is.

Personally, I think eternal marriage in an earthly sense is not the case because we, individually, are not eternal in an earthly sense. That is, it isn't like me, with how I look and my faults and my personality and all necessarily is the resurrected me in the afterlife. Heck, the me I encounter when in mystical visions isn't the me I know in ordinary consciousness. So, it's likely that while the love between my husband and I will remain, neither of us will be much like we are now, nor will we have need for social contracts such as marriage.

Just my 2 c.

My feeling is that any relationships here on earth will pale in comparasion with the relationships we will experience in eternity, and that includes between husband and wife. But I do think that the husband and wife relationship is the closest we will get between two human beings. We will know people through and through. There will be transparancy and openess, nothing hid, yet we will have the ability to forgive and love others much more acutely in the spiritual realm than while we were in our fleshly mortal bodies.

Which means in eternity, there bond we share with our spouse here will remain, however, we will no longer feel the bond as strong, comparatively speaking, and that will allow us to pursue relations with others much more intensely. So as we pursue these relationships, the marriage bond dissolves. This kind of thing has the potential to last indefinitely.

[greymare]

oh dondi, does that mean that earthly marriage doesnt compare to the relationship you will encounter when(or if) you get to heaven? Sorry, I dont understand.

[Dream]

Originally Posted by Netti Netti

According to some beliefs in Judaism, humans are moraly and spiritually superior to angels because - like G-d - humans have a capacity for free will.

Just padding about the internet I've learned that there may be different kinds of angels in Judiasm, and it really depends upon whom you ask. Angels fall into the mysticism category. Some say angels are created by thoughts of both God and man, but it is unclear to what they are referring as angels, whether thinking angels or ideas as angels, etc. That is one of the more rare viewpoints, however. Anyway it is unlikely we will get any feedback on it in this thread.

In Christian literature, I think that men on a mission are occasionally referred to as angels. There really are some extremely diverse opinions on this, however when Jesus says people will be like angels at the resurrection this probably refers to Adam in Genesis before he was divided into male and female. The resurrection makes people who are fascinated with each other, hoping and doting upon each other yet nonsexual and without the complexities of marriage and removing the organic necessity of procreation. The 'Love' we feel in romance or for our children becomes a package of feelings we have for everyone without any sexual or reproductive desires attached. The marriage and parent-child bond will be remembered as an attempt at the relationships that will be made possible in the future. How God will rationally justify this change in humanity is considered to be a mystery revealed in Jesus, the first to undergo the full transformation.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

According to some beliefs in Judaism, humans are moraly and spiritually superior to angels because - like G-d - humans have a capacity for free will.

Judaism is quite specific about angels and man.

We are a bit lower (now), but that will not always be the case. I don't ken what variations you are referring to concerning Jewish faith.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by greymare

oh dondi, does that mean that earthly marriage doesnt compare to the relationship you will encounter when(or if) you get to heaven? Sorry, I dont understand.

That's what he means. Marriage is a pre-lude to what is coming...in every case, much better...:-)

[greymare]

so then, why is earthly marriage of such importance then, if its only a prelude to what is coming???? I still dont get it. LOL

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by greymare

so then, why is earthly marriage of such importance then, if its only a prelude to what is coming???? I still dont get it. LOL

God looked at Adam, and saw that there was no suitable companion for him...

...And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. genesis 2:18


...and they've been fightin' like hell ever since...

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by greymare

oh dondi, does that mean that earthly marriage doesnt compare to the relationship you will encounter when(or if) you get to heaven? Sorry, I dont understand.

I'm saying that marriage is but a taste of the kind of relationship we will have in heaven. It is my understanding that as long as we are in this corrputable flesh, with all it's failings, we will be unable to sustain perfect unity in the marriage relationship, no matter how long we try.

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself." - Ephesians 5:25-28

This is an extremely hard thing to do, though recognizing and relying of the Spirit of God to generate that love in us makes it easier, but we will never know the full potential in our mortal flesh. Marriage is a training experience to teach us how to love. And we will carry what we learn into the next world.

But imagine being in incorruptable bodies in the full presence of God in His kingdom, where our limitations that we experience here on earth are dissolved. We will experience unbounded love generated first from the Father and reproduced in ourselves toward others. Everything is laid out in the open.

Many who have had NDEs claim that they experience such powerful sensations of love and acceptance in the presence of God, angels, and loved ones thay have met during their NDE. Sensations are magnified to such acute levels that defy words to explain the experience, but no more pain or sorrow. Colors are more brilliant and intense and some claim to have seen colors that they never seen before. Or music that is so beautiful that it eclipses anything we've ever heard down here. There is a sense of eternity and unity in everything, and complete knowledge about everything. There is such a strong sense of joy, love, and peace that they have never known before, such so they didn't want to leave when they were called back into their bodies.

If true, one can see how our relationships with each other will be radically different in heaven that here on earth.

[Dream]

Hi, Greymare! The point of marriage is mostly practical for us, although it teaches us about forgiveness, protection, etc. The ultimate purpose for the human condition and design of marriage is a matter of opinion, because Genesis is an encrypted resource. It is a mystery that no one can speak about it with authority, because even if you know what it says, no one has any reason to believe that you do. There is no way for them to check your interpretation without first obtaining their own! There is no way for your opinions on Genesis to go unquestioned. The meaning of Genesis is hidden from every generation, so that the world will move on according to a plan. The ultimate higher purpose for marriage is hidden, too. In Christianity, it is seen as having been revealed by Jesus, so we talk about it openly.

Judaism is quite specific about angels and man.

We are a bit lower (now), but that will not always be the case. I don't ken what variations you are referring to concerning Jewish faith.

I don't know much about it, except one Jewish resource suggested angels were created by thoughts of both men and God. That may have been a fringe group who said it. I don't remember all about it, except that it leaves a broad definition of what angels could be in Judaism. I don't know to what degree rabbinic Judaism has changed over the years, because I don't know. I'm reading a book about it in bits.

I didn't see Dondi posting before I posted.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Dream

I don't know much about it, except one Jewish resource suggested angels were created by thoughts of both men and God. That may have been a fringe group who said it. I don't remember all about it, except that it leaves a broad definition of what angels could be in Judaism. I don't know to what degree rabbinic Judaism has changed over the years, because I don't know. I'm reading a book about it in bits.

Would that be anything like egregores?