Meaning of trinity

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Hello Neemai —

"What is man, that thou art mindful of him?"
Hebrews 2:6

As God is Absolute, Infinite, Transcendant ... God is beyond all definition, all distinction, all determination ... in short, God cannot be known, conceived or comprehended. What is man, as the sacred scribe asks, that he should, like Icarus, dare to assume he even has the right to ask such a question?

(snip)

Thomas

Yes, beyond all definition, all distinctions, all determination ... yet it seems to me not beyond knowing.

And might I add personally in my view that God is beyond all names you may apply to him.

In Peace and Love,
JM

[InLove]

Thank you, Thomas.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Lunamoth I used to go to a Saturday Greek school as a child and we had a Greek Orthodox priest that would visit and give some classes short lectures on the Christian faith and we would throw some questions at him. One question I threw at him was about the after life, it isn't till now at 23 I realise his view is heretical. He basically disagreed with hell and described it as being distant from God or being blind in the next life. Kind of similar to the Baha'i teachings which I'm sure he wasn’t aware of. That priest as I remember him was an exceptional person.

How far can we push the herecy in Christianity and get away with it? Am I going to hell if I believe in evoloution or don't believe in hell in the same sense as the scriptures?

I don't think that priest's view was heretical, especially because he is an Orthodox priest. His view might be considered heresy by Roman Catholics (but I'm not sure) and would be rejected by some Protestants, but what you've related above is much like what I have heard from other Orthodox Christians. Hell is not so much a place as it is a state of separation from God, and it's much more likely that Baha'u'llah got this from the Orthodox, rather than the other way around. It is an ancient view.

It is not heresy to accept the theory of evolution as our best explanation of how humans came to be, nor is it heresy to be scientific in one's thinking and approach to the material universe. It is not heresy to view Genesis and other parts of the Bible as metaphors for Creation: they tell us about God and our relationship with God, rather than being a textbook on the mechanics of how God created.

2 c

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Hello Neemai —



"What is man, that thou art mindful of him?"
Hebrews 2:6

As God is Absolute, Infinite, Transcendant ... God is beyond all definition, all distinction, all determination ... in short, God cannot be known, conceived or comprehended. What is man, as the sacred scribe asks, that he should, like Icarus, dare to assume he even has the right to ask such a question?

God is beyond all knowing.
Unless God chooses to be known.

This idea then, of Divine Revelation is what we understand by the term 'Verbum' — The Word — which signifies precisely that self-disclosure of the Deity.

In Trinitartian terms:
The Father speaks the Word, that He is;
The Son receives the Word, that He is;
The Spirit is the Word.

The Father is not the Son, nor the Spirit;
The Son is not the Father, nor the Spirit;
The Spirit is not the Father, nor the Son.

The Father is wholly the Son, and wholly the Spirit;
The Son is wholly the Father, and wholly the Spirit;
The Spirit is wholly the Father, and wholly the Son.

Three in Person.
One in essence, substance, being and nature.

+++

There are many words, and throughout the ages there have been some wonderful liturgical and prayerful litanies composed, a Google search will provide if you ask for 'litanies of the Divine Name'.

The name above all names is Abba — Father.

In the Greek language of the early church, 'theos' was the word used of the Father, and 'kurios' used of the Son. It is the latter, Kurios, that was held synonymous with Adonai.

Thomas

Thank you Thomas, exellent post.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by JosephM

BF,
If the "bible makes perfectly clear" why then is there over 1000 divisions and denominations in Christianity?

Has not God always walked around in bodily form so to speak? Otherwise, why would Jesus say.
Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

God has forgiven my sins. Am I not then also holy and righteous in God's eyes and walking around with these same attributes? Or shall I be foolish and retain that which God has forgiven? Are they attributes for God alone or does he manifest them in his children?

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Is it robbery that I should also be considered a son of God. When he shall appear shall I not be like him?

The bible makes it perfectly clear that Jesus is the Word of God, The Lamb of God, the Saviour, who is the light of the world full of grace and truth, and in him there is everlasting life for those who call on his name. Those that do not believe these words as they are clearly expressed, but twist them or have preconceived ideas of what God should be and try to squeeze him into their own interpretation, or have too much invested in their ego, culture, or own wisdom might be confused and it is not clear to them. yet the spirit waits for them to humbly call on him so he may reveal the truth.

Having said that, there is indeed different denominations, but none of them which consider themselves part of mainstream Christianity deviate from the divinity of Christ. They may have different opinions of what their calling and talents are, or what they want to spend special attention on, but that does not subtract from the fact they they are all brothers and sisters born again in Christ. Those that deviate from the divinity of Christ who being the Word of God, who was with God, and as God humbly came down so we might be saved through his resurrection. He has the power to lay his life, take it up again, to forgive sins and to judge and to cast those that reject him into hell. All those that deviate from this are no longer considered part of Mainstream Christianity.

The holy spirit does work through those God chooses to work through. There are those that pay special attention on evangelizing, there are those that pay special attention to translating the bible into different languages, there are those that go around baptizing, there are those that simply raise a family in the ways of the Lord. That does not divide Christianity, rather it glorifies God by using what we have been given to spread the gospel.

As far as Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. This is a reflection of God's justice, not a statement making you equal with God. We are to love God with all our heart and soul, the next great commandment is like it, we are to love one another. If we cannot forgive others, how do you expect God to forgive you.

If you have asked God forgiveness in Jesus' name then you are indeed forgiven. That wipes your slate clean, yet because we are still human, we still sin and fall short of the glory of God. There is no one that is sinless, holy, righteous, other than Jesus himself who died for our sins, only he has the power over death, because he is life and wishes to give it to us if we believe in him.

We are called to be holy as God is holy, that is our goal. Yet we will fail, but there is Jesus to forgive us, there is the Spirit to guide us, to help us, and to comfort us, that although we will fall short, God's grace brings us over from death to life, from condemnation to salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Because we are men, we are corruptible, we die, and our bodies turn back to dust from which they came. Only Jesus Christ, who was there forming Adam from the dust and breathed life into his nostrils is incorruptible and eternal and holy. He alone was there from the beginning, we will never be. We can never be God, that is what Lucifer thought. our hope is that if believe in Jesus Christ we will be glorified as Jesus was glorified and be found in the book of life, that Jesus alone has the power to open. God will change our corruptible bodies into incorruptible bodies, and being changed we will be able then to see God as he truly is.

[Postmaster]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I don't think that priest's view was heretical, especially because he is an Orthodox priest. His view might be considered heresy by Roman Catholics (but I'm not sure) and would be rejected by some Protestants, but what you've related above is much like what I have heard from other Orthodox Christians. Hell is not so much a place as it is a state of separation from God, and it's much more likely that Baha'u'llah got this from the Orthodox, rather than the other way around. It is an ancient view.

It is not heresy to accept the theory of evolution as our best explanation of how humans came to be, nor is it heresy to be scientific in one's thinking and approach to the material universe. It is not heresy to view Genesis and other parts of the Bible as metaphors for Creation: they tell us about God and our relationship with God, rather than being a textbook on the mechanics of how God created.

2 c

I think you’re correct with how Orthodox consider the after life. But to say Bahaullah stole it off Orthodoxy might not be correct. It is originally a Zoroastrian concept who was also a Persian. Which to me shows the mix and match of religion right from the start.

[mee]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

ok, i have a question. was Moses divine because God thru Moses parted the sea? was Elijah divine because God thru Elijah caused fire to rain from heaven or God thru Elijah raised the dead? was Samson divine because God granted him super strength? there were a number of men that performed miracles in Gods name but were they divine? from my point of view, no. the only difference with Christ is that He submitted to God's will utterly and without question. He never sinned, either. He is the Perfect Man. He is the only begotten Son. only begotten meaning "unique". He is different from us all, that is a fact. but to me it doesn't make Him God. He is One with God and at His right Hand. but not God. i though confess that He is my Lord and King when His Kingdom reigns on earth, but i can't shake this feeling that He isn't God. i give all glory and honor to our Father in heaven. this is just my point of view. everyone of course may not agree, but that is natural and necessary. thanks and God bless...

yes ,Jesus really is unique he was the first-born of creation by Jehovah , he was the only one created by Jehovah alone ,everything else was created though Jesus. and he was also unique in that he was resurrected to immortality by Jehovah, he was the first-born from the dead . others will have immortality in heaven and they will be resurrected through Jesus. but he is unique in the fact that it was his father Jehovah that created him in the beginning of creation . and he is unique in the fact that he was ressurrected to spirit life and immortality in the heavens by his father Jehovah .

[mee]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Mee speaks through the Watchtower, you speak through your own perspective, and BF is not alone by speaking through the bible.

Gracefully,
Karen

lol .. i am always on the lookout for good bible based info it is good to read about things inline with the bible . and the watchtower mag sure has led me to keep awake to the bible and what it contains , especially the Established kingdom Daniel 2;44

[mee]

so the meaning of the trinity . ............... as i stick closely to bible teachings the trinity is not really important to me as a christian . so i tend to focus on doing the following
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
JOHN 17;3 And it leads to everlasting life ............