I will take that as a compliment. xD

hey dauer, NOW i have a man crush! LOL! hey why don't you open up your shirt abit so we can see some of that chest hair? i keeeeeed, i keeeeeeed! LOL!

I meant the quality of animal's lives more than my own. I mean even though I'd be willing to eat meat under certain circumstances, I doubt I'll ever see any of those circumstances come about because I'm too idealist and our society is too industrialized. I don't find the current free range regs satisfactory at all.

In terms of finding food, if you don't have a health food store near you, I get a lot of bulk staple food (as well as spices, teas and cooking supplies) from this site: Bulk Food Distributor, Wholesale Spices, Nuts, Chocolates and Candy Online I honestly don't think buying seitan in the stores is worth it because it's very easy to make from vital wheat gluten. You can find quinoa on the site too which can be used very similarly to rice. It does, however, need to be rinsed first to remove the saponin that's on the outside. Another thing you might want to look into, if you're on that site, is nutritional yeast. It's a non-active yeast that's high in B vitamins (which can be lacking in a vegan diet) and is useful in cooking to get a cheesy flavor. Good on popcorn too. Even if there is say a whole foods near you, you can get those types of goods cheaper from that site and as long as your order is over a certain cost (I forget what) shipping is free.

My weight's actually gone up a little. I'm about 137 now. It's due to my diet, my height and my metabolism. I'm 5' 7 1/2", always had a very high metabolism and have been vegan for a couple of years. I think it's mostly due to the second two though. If my metabolism slows as I age I'll probably have to change my eating habits. lol.

My pleasure on the links. If you've got any other questions feel free to give a holler.

wow. that makes total sense about the clothing aspect. never gave it much though till now. thanks for that. i am learning so much. i agree with the quality of life aspect for the diet. i've been questioning my mortality alot lately for some reason. just want to live for as long as possible. its funny though that you mention the killing of an animal to a certain extent is still justified. the only way i would ever eat meat again is if i raised the animal myself on my land and of course i would see to it that it didn't suffer. at all! but the chances for that are near to impossible since i don't own a farm and my pay is mediocre.

seitan? that sounds funny. quinoa? i'll look for them. you come across those at a local store or otherwise?
i have a few questions if you have the time. what is TVP? is too much soy bad for you? also yo mentioned once that you weigh 130lbs. is this due to your diet? seems rather underweight if you ask me. unless you're short? i have a lot of homework to do. thanks for the links you've provided.

Leo,

clothing is things like wool, leather that come from animals. I personally own leather products from before I went vegan that I have no intention to stop using and I don't have any issue with buying leather goods second hand, mainly belts really. My own reason for veganism has more to do with quality of life than killing animals which puts me at odds with a lot of other vegans.

There are a lot of common myths in the vegan and vegetarian communities that are being used to support the diets. I don't know if you've been exposed to any of them but a good site by a, I think vegetarian but maybe vegan, who goes out of his way to debunk them for the sake of intellectual honesty is this one: Beyond Vegetarianism--Raw Food, Vegan, Fruitarian, Paleo Diets It doesn't deal with the ethical motivations which I think are hard to challenge while being intellectually honest, just others.

"i mean, i know God approves of eating meat in the TANACH, but for crying out loud, not like this! do you know what i mean?"

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. That's very in line with my own thinking. I do think we eat too much meat and because it's all driven by quotas the animals suffer. Despite being a vegan, I still think it would be an awesome thing to be able to go back in time and experience what it was like to be in Jerusalem on one of the major festivals and bring an offering. One of the things I do find interesting biblically from a veg standpoint is the lack of meat consumption until after the flood.

Mad Cows Disease can take years to show up and I'm concerned in the states in a few years we'll start seeing people with it because the regs haven't been tightened.

I do eat soy products and I try to limit my soy intake. I drink rice milk instead of soy milk and lately I've cut out TVP which based on my research is the only thing that's reliably caused issues in studies. It's very heavily processed. I also eat seitan, an excellent source of protein made from wheat gluten that's very tasty and can be prepared for cheap at home from vital wheat gluten. There are other good sources of protein. Generally vegans have to be more concerned with ensuring the consumption of complete proteins which are a combination of a grain and a bean, not necessarily in the same meal. There are some other complete proteins that are vegan, like in quinoa.

dauer,
thanks for clearing up the inconsistencies in muh mind. in that case, i'd put myself in the vegan catagorie. except for the clothing part. could you explain that one to me?

i've been on this diet since a SDA person showed up at my door and introduced me to the plant based diet he subscribes to. i saw a dvd and the information there was mindblowing, to say the least. i learned so much that day and only confirmed what had recently been on my mind as of late. its so funny how circumstances introduce themselves into my mind.

the first instance was when i was playing the Dead Rising game on the 360. in the story the reason there are zombies was due to a cloning process that went wrong due to the gov't trying to meet the high demands of people's consumption of meat. i couldn't help but think that we unnecesarily eat too much meat. its actually gross if you ask me.

the second was that whole thing with the mad cow desease. the way they would treat the animals. and for what? its insane how spoiled we are. in my opinion anyways.

the third was the rumors that animals will be eventually be cloned for the purpose of meat consumption (if this hasn't started already). i don't want to be a part of this. there's something wrong with the world, isn't there?

and the fourth is when Dan (sda dude) showed up as i mentioned earlier. its funny how things just happen "coincidentally" but it just feels like i am doing the right thing. i mean, i know God approves of eating meat in the TANACH, but for crying out loud, not like this! do you know what i mean? i didn't know who else to talk to but you came to mind when i remembered your mentioning of your diet. thanks for the information again. but if you can help me out with that clothing question i asked earlier, i'd be much obliged. one more thing. do you eat soy products? thanks and hope to hear from you soon.

Hey Leo.

Vegetarianism: Umbrella term but when used alone often refers to those who eat dairy, eggs and the like but refrain from eating meat.

Strict Vegetarian: Someone who additionally doesn't eat eggs, dairy and the like.

Vegan: Someone who eats like a strict vegetarian and applies that ethic to other products that are not edible like clothing.

I'm a vegan. I don't eat any dairy products. I have found there are some good substitutes for certain types of products like butter, cream cheese, sour cream. I'm not terribly fond of most vegan cheeses but I do find, in order to add a cheesy flavor, nutritional yeast works well. If you're cutting out a lot from your diet, if you haven't already, it would be a good idea to either see a nutritionist or read a book on vegan/vegetarian nutrition and make sure you're getting all of the vitamins you need. If you're looking for recipes, this is an awesome resource: VegWeb.com - Vegan Recipes and Cooking Tips

hey dauer. i have a quiry. as a vegan or vegetarian (sorry, i get the two confused), do you still eat cheese or milk? i am struggling mainly with cheese because it is an awesome substitute for salt. milk i discovered i can easily replace with soy milk. it tastes the same!