mercy

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by louis

You seem to be saying : We reap what we sew
which is really just more common sense.
"Good" behaviour or actions which promote harmony,
comfort and peace make more sense than actions which
cause pain, discord and destruction.
Surely no one needs divine help to figure that out.

Disregarding Karma for the moment, this presupposes some form of equity or fairness in life that doesn't exist. "All men are created equal" is a wonderful sentiment, but it is not an established fact. It is a political nicety brought about (in greater and lesser degree) by collective social will. So no, it is not "just common sense."

Of course, there are some who act only to promote
their OWN comfort and profit regardless of any pain and
destruction may be caused to others.

Bingo! Unless and until an individual is brought to realize this (not just think it), it is a meaningless concept with no practical application.

[samabudhi]

In my opinion, God is merciful; it's just that we don't understand his mercy because our idea of mercy is different than his.

He's supposed to be helping us, so why doesn't he use words we're familiar with then?

What is mercy, anyways? Personally, I think it is not getting the bad things that I really deserve (i.e. I sin, so I deserve to be punished, but God doesn't punish me)

And this is a good thing? Tell me...If a parent were as inconsistent with a child as much as a merciful God is with his people, then wouldn't he be failing in his duties? We learn by repetition. If you break that, then the child/person is thrown into chaos. The problem with drunk parents is that they are inconsistent and the child is in fear because he/she doesn't know what will come next. Even a harse disciplinarian is better than a loose cannon, because the child can live without fear; he knows what to expect.

I don't believe that every criminal act occurs because of chemical imbalance; I believe that many are the result of conscious decisions made by, well, wicked people.

There is no such thing as wicked people. Every freak has a history. Do you know how Geoffrey Darma (spelling?) was treated by his mother? Terribly. Look it up, its interesting. No-one is born evil. This is a terrible way of looking at things. I don't understand why you don't accept this? Maybe you could explain please?

We hear every day of tragic events that happen to innocent people. However, we don't hear of events where, miraculously, a serious crime was averted and an innocent life was spared. Such events are not considered newsworthy by the media, at least in my country. To say that God never helps is, I think, without a basis. To say that sometimes he does not help... I can agree that this statement is valid, or at least seems valid.

So if God blows hot and cold like the weather, isn't it naive to think that you can con him into helping you more than others just by 'worshipping' him?

I suppose you'll say that worshipping is not enough, you have to do good etc. Well sure. But then is it doing good or worshipping which does the trick. I'm sure you'll find, looking at many examples in the world today, that the answer is doing good (which can be done without beliefs) and not worship. I would venture an explanation of the importance of worship though, and this is that in order to do good (which essentially means not being selfish), you need to devote yourself to someone else. Since you believe that some people are evil however, you probably wouldn't agree with devoting yourself to everyone else, but rather to someone whose character cannot accurately be perceived. So you invent God, a higher all benevolent being above all quesion, in order to fit the place of your archetypal 'chief' whom you can devote yourself to. We see this done in society where the president (the modern chief) is often above all question, especially in communist governments. This is why they clash with religion all the time. In England, the head of the church was in constant battle with the king for control of the people.

I propose, in all humility, that you set aside your prejudices, suspend judgement of others, and devote your attention to people, and see how it works out.

Originally Posted by louis

You seem to be saying : We reap what we sew

I think you mean : 'I stood in some doo.'
(just kidding)

Surely no one needs divine help to figure that out.

People need whatever help they can get. Nothing is obvious and one should always be open to suggestions.

[louis]

When one sees themselves as accountable for their actions, to whatever authority beyond them, they are much more likely to "play by the rules." With no accountability, there is no reward, and no (apparent) incentive to play by the rules, so why bother?

From Louis...
Forgive me if find your words a bit cynical - almost "anti-altruistic"...
I'm not very charitable myself, but I know some people are just NATURALY honest, moral and good to their fellow humans. They don't act out of hope for a reward or because they fear the cosquences of NOT being good . They just ENJOY being good.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Louis!

Originally Posted by louis

When one sees themselves as accountable for their actions, to whatever authority beyond them, they are much more likely to "play by the rules." With no accountability, there is no reward, and no (apparent) incentive to play by the rules, so why bother? -jt3

From Louis...
Forgive me if find your words a bit cynical - almost "anti-altruistic"...
I'm not very charitable myself, but I know some people are just NATURALY honest, moral and good to their fellow humans. They don't act out of hope for a reward or because they fear the cosquences of NOT being good . They just ENJOY being good.

I have heard this line of thought before, but it has never been supported by example. To me, it does not make rational or logical sense. It is an unfounded presumption.

So, tell you what. If you can show me facts to support your position, I will then elaborate further why I made the comments I did. I would think that to be fair and reasonable.

Until then, I stand by my assertion that morality is taught.