Mickey Mouse exists, do you?

Awaiting_the_fifth · 07-05-2005, 10:20 PM

Mickey Mouse is Real!!!

He exists in the minds of the people who know him. In our minds he goes about his business, reacting to whatever stimulus our imagination may present him with. We can, if we choose, fill in the gaps between his shows with other imagined adventures.

In this continuum of thought, he exists.

Therefore I submit that it is entirely possible that all of us exist only in the mind of some greater imagining entity (God?)

NB
Ive been thinking about this on and off for a while and it makes sense to me but Im not sure Im communicating it very well.

Postmaster · 07-06-2005, 12:41 AM

If im not mistaken by my GCSE science lessons for something to have life it needs to excrete, reproduce and respire. Out of all honesty I'm not too sure Mickey Mouse does any of those things. I'd say Mickey Mouse is only real in ones minds and as a comparison maybe God is too.

But it does make sense! If you’re trying to say that something exists simply because you think about it and creating it somewhere it will animate it (excuse the pun), this could be very possible. I mean the mind is a very very powerful organ, it could take many many years before scientists even get close to understanding even some of the basic questions. Never under estimate the power of the mind. If you truly want something, you can truly get it. But this puts at risk harmony and a governing force which in fact God is suppose to be. There is a such thing as negative mysticism you know, look at voodoo dolls for instance

Awaiting_the_fifth · 07-06-2005, 10:40 AM

I said exists, not lives.

But if this theory is correct, then the only reason you and I move, respire, are sensitive, require nutrition, energy, can reproduce and grow is because the entity which is imagining us, in who's mind we exist, imagines that we do these things.

redfox123 · 07-12-2005, 06:57 PM

Protagoras said that there is no objective test for what is 'real' or 'true'. "Man is the measure of all things, of the existence of the things that are, and the non-existence of things that are not." (not sure if that's word perfect)

From this - one thing can be relied on: the existence of ourselves because we are the basis of thinking about things that may or may not be true. But clearly ignores the fact that we may not be real ourselves. Which also gives rise to the question of... yet again.... what is real or true?

The flip side of this:
Brahman was the most interesting thing I ever learned at University. It is the transcendental reality of some groups of Hinduism. The 'divine ground' of all being.

This group of ideas suggest the creation of the world is like falling asleep. As a consequence, the sense organs can tell us nothing that is true, more than that, speech is illusory, since it happens in, or at least passes through: the body. Most feelings are illusory, because they are registered in our nerves and guts. Only the inarticulacy which some call 'the dark night of the soul' (that right?) is real, and truth can be glimpsed only in purely spiritual visions, or certain feelings, like selfless love and sadness, which do not have any physical 'being'.

My memory is terrible, but I think that's about the gist of it.
Mickey Mouse does exist, just like we do. But then ultimately I believe that we and Mickey don't really exist. But our dreams and ideas do. Which makes Mickey more real than us?

yeah... that answered everything. But good topic smoggy.

Proph 1 · 07-15-2005, 08:05 AM

Believe it or not, one of my favorite philosophers was the famous martial artist Bruce Lee. Once when asked by a classmate what he'd do as a philosopher, he remarked:

"I dunno...think deeps thoughts about being broke."

I say that to ask the following question: Besides the feeling of being intellectually stimulated, what gain do we get from conjuring up these thoughts? Seriously, I'd like to know. I speculate as a person's comes of age, and is on his death bed, stimulating questions seem to lose its luster, wonder, and mystique. All that's left in that time is absolute truth. And, what's next? The question of what will happen to me when I die comes into mind, and you're left with the sound of one hand clapping -- nothingness. Then, you die and no one alive knows the answers to which you may or may not find. So, we continue to philosophize, until old age and death comes again. I dunno, to me this is a little crazy. All this thinking, without ever coming to a definite answer for what? I'm not knocking philosophy. Remember, I said I like it - I do! I'm just asking, "for what?"

Awaiting_the_fifth · 07-17-2005, 01:33 PM

I think the why is different for each of us.

Personally I am seeking for answers. I do not believe that the world is exactly what I see when I open my eyes, it does not quite add up. When I think about these [frankly weird] things I am not just waxing philosophical, not asking for the sake of a good metaphysical discussion (although I agree, that is fun), I am seriously considering the possibility that my entire life might be a figment of someone else's immagination.

Sebastian · 07-21-2005, 05:11 AM

This thread of course remind me of Bishop Berkely, who believed that only two things really existed, God and the mind. Matter does not exist.

This proved to be embarrasing when the Bishop came to visit a friend, and the friend told him to come thru the door, since it did not really eixst.

Berkely was allowed in...only after he admitted the door really existed.

Finally, Kant said that no one can know what reality is..since to do that, we would have to step outside of reality itself and view it as an outsider.

The only entity we know who has that ability....we call God.

Awaiting_the_fifth · 07-21-2005, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian

we would have to step outside of reality itself and view it as an outsider.

The only entity we know who has that ability....we call God.

That may be your belief, I believe in many beings who do this and I strive to do it myself eventually

nomanshake · 07-22-2005, 03:23 PM

When people think about Mickey Mouse they wont think that he is the Creator, he is the maker of everything, he is the controller of spirits, master of the world. Mickey Mouse can only exist in a person's mind as a being or an existant. But God exists as a higher power.

Even when some people believe in ghosts or aliens, though they might not exist , but they would never think that aliens and ghosts would punish a person for wrong doings, but if they think about God in their minds, they'd also think that he is punisher of the wrong-doers.

Awaiting_the_fifth · 07-22-2005, 06:20 PM

I am not suggesting that mickey mouse created us, in fact I suggest that we created him in a real sense in a continuum of thought.

God, if he exists in this hypothesis, would be the one who imagines us in the way that we imagine mickey mouse.
In this way, we are God to mickey mouse and mickey mouse may in turn imagine something else to which he is god. The chain need never end.

satay · 08-16-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

I think the why is different for each of us.

Personally I am seeking for answers. I do not believe that the world is exactly what I see when I open my eyes, it does not quite add up. When I think about these [frankly weird] things I am not just waxing philosophical, not asking for the sake of a good metaphysical discussion (although I agree, that is fun), I am seriously considering the possibility that my entire life might be a figment of someone else's immagination.

You should read advaita philosophy. It is fascinating and in line with what you are describing here.

satay

wil · 08-08-2006, 02:25 PM

I remember when my kids asked me if Santa Claus exists. They already knew he 'didn't' they just wanted to put me on the spot.

When I told him he did, they questioned me more...and with intensity about all the nuances, all the impossibilities.

We discussed the belief, in our minds, what Santa Claus is to us, the nature of the spirit of giving, of joy, of recieving. And that Santa Claus exists in our minds, can be manifest in our lives, and can the spirit can live in our hearts.

Same with Micky Mouse... same with us.

How about the likes of Hitler...some people loved him, some revered him...are there two different Hitlers? or do is it a matter of perspective, of belief, of what we create?

How about Jesus, there exists what Christians believe, differing greatly from what Jews believe, differing greatly again from what Muslims believe, and another seperation yet again from what the rest of the world believes. Then even in Christianity we get to the intracies of each denomination, while they have some common ground, even they have differences of belief level in what Jesus was v. Christ, v. Jesus Christ, v. Jesus the Christ....

Caimanson · 08-26-2006, 12:21 AM

Hello AT5, I am not going to add much to the discussion, just thought that you might find interesting a short story by Borges called "ruinas circulares" (circular ruins), that is somewhat related to your question, but perhaps not give many answers. Found a link to it in english: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jatill/...cularRuins.htm

moseslmpg · 09-01-2006, 06:52 PM

Interesting, AT5. Have you ever done any reading into Hermeticism because this is one of the truths put forth: that everything is merely the dream or thought of the Infinite Living Mind of The ALL. It is very much akin to advaitic philosophy where there is the ultimate reality which we can perceive, which is not only the root of all things but it is the only thing that truly exists.

The Kybalion expounds on much of this philosophy as well as the precepts of Hermeticism, and there is also a rewritten version by the Summum foundation/organization. Anyway, basically it says that The ALL is the only thing that truly exists and everything else must be a mental projection of the The ALL because it cannot exist separately from it, else The ALL would not be The ALL. To us, who are merely finite projections of The ALL onto itself, all other illusory projections of The ALL seem real to us. The Kybalion warns against stumbling around as if in a dream, because to us, this dream is real.

There is further speculation by people, that The ALL is merely the projection of an even greater The ALL or SUMMUM above it, and so on, ad infinitum. However as finite beings projected by The ALL, there is nothing above it for us. This speculation seems to arise from the line from Hermes Trismegistus which states that as finite beings we can only know God, who is infinite, but perhaps God can know of things which only infinite minds can know about...or something like that.

I've actually written a little cosmology to be used in a game and story which is a commentary on the psychological ramifications of such a belief, with my own little spin on it and a little Hollywood overexaggeration to make for good reading.

If you would like to read further about The ALL here are some links (replace * with t, and & with w):
h**p://&&&.kybalion.org/kybalion.asp
h**p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_All
h**p://&&&.workofthechariot.com/TextFiles/Back-MysticalQabalah.html
The last link is an explanation of the three different -isms from a Mystical Qabalah point of view.

Edit: Hmmm, I didn't notice this was the Secularism section. In that case, just replace any religious references with the secular term of your choosing.

Terrence · 10-01-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph 1

Believe it or not, one of my favorite philosophers was the famous martial artist Bruce Lee. Once when asked by a classmate what he'd do as a philosopher, he remarked:

"I dunno...think deeps thoughts about being broke."

I say that to ask the following question: Besides the feeling of being intellectually stimulated, what gain do we get from conjuring up these thoughts? Seriously, I'd like to know. I speculate as a person's comes of age, and is on his death bed, stimulating questions seem to lose its luster, wonder, and mystique. All that's left in that time is absolute truth. And, what's next? The question of what will happen to me when I die comes into mind, and you're left with the sound of one hand clapping -- nothingness. Then, you die and no one alive knows the answers to which you may or may not find. So, we continue to philosophize, until old age and death comes again. I dunno, to me this is a little crazy. All this thinking, without ever coming to a definite answer for what? I'm not knocking philosophy. Remember, I said I like it - I do! I'm just asking, "for what?"