Microbes - Page 2

Tao_Equus · 05-22-2007, 12:23 PM

Patient died after refusing blood
Interesting read.

Tao_Equus · 05-22-2007, 12:27 PM

Interseting that they will use IVF treatment. They pick and choose what technology based on nonsense interpretations of the Bible. Personaly I believe anyone who witholds treatment from a child that subsequently dies is guilty of murder.

TE

17th Angel · 05-22-2007, 01:03 PM

illegal to refuse a blood transfer?? That in it's self is terrible..... Fine, lets ban the JW's from having the RITE to refuse something... Or even better, lets simply make it illegal for a person to choose to be a JW.... Why should a person have a choice, those stupid people... Thinking they have freedom and Rites... What were they thinking.... This they believe should be done, for the good of the person, they believe they can make that persons choices for them... No let's go with this.... I think also we should make Jewish and islamic faiths illegal... They do not know what they are doing, we will make their decisions for them.... It's better that way....

Ironic, how people do not like the JW faith because they don't like this being (We shall call the watchtower.... As many do... lol) That makes decisions for the JW's and they see this as simply wrong... But do not see that they are also trying to make the decisions for the JW's and make them think what they think which is identical and wrong again... Leave it to the indvidual JW.... He/she has that power.... Not us. I think it is admirable.... Weither I believe they are wrong or not... They put their life on the line and will sacrafice it for something..... Now, that, is something...

Tao_Equus · 05-22-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

illegal to refuse a blood transfer?? That in it's self is terrible..... Fine, lets ban the JW's from having the RITE to refuse something... Or even better, lets simply make it illegal for a person to choose to be a JW.... Why should a person have a choice, those stupid people... Thinking they have freedom and Rites... What were they thinking.... This they believe should be done, for the good of the person, they believe they can make that persons choices for them... No let's go with this.... I think also we should make Jewish and islamic faiths illegal... They do not know what they are doing, we will make their decisions for them.... It's better that way....

Ironic, how people do not like the JW faith because they don't like this being (We shall call the watchtower.... As many do... lol) That makes decisions for the JW's and they see this as simply wrong... But do not see that they are also trying to make the decisions for the JW's and make them think what they think which is identical and wrong again... Leave it to the indvidual JW.... He/she has that power.... Not us. I think it is admirable.... Weither I believe they are wrong or not... They put their life on the line and will sacrafice it for something..... Now, that, is something...

I agree with you except where it comes to children. You have the right over your own life but never over that of another.

TE

mee · 05-23-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis king

so, mee, hypothetical q for u....

if I could make an artificial substance which was structurally the same as blood, would JW's be able to use this, then?

those things are already around, JW have used various tratments that do not violate their bible trained consience. it is not medical treatment that JW refuse just the whole blood .

mee · 05-23-2007, 05:21 PM

i find it ironic that people make an issue about JW who die in an operation, but the ones that do well are never mentioned . are they implying that people who have blood never die , i think we will find that people die lots of times because of complications. and it is a known fact that those who dont have blood recover much quicker than the one who have been given blood . if a person is very seriously ill the blood of a nother person is like an alian body, and it is just something else that our bodies have to fight against. in fact my sister who had her bowel removed and did not have blood recovered much much better than the ones on the same ward who had been given blood . and it was the same operation . the fact is people like to hear the bad news about JW , but there are many many good stories out there about JW all over the world who did not have blood and the results were great . in fact the medical world have learned lots of things by operating on the JW and now various things are used as a matter of coarse on other patients who are not witnesses because they know it works out better for people .

mee · 05-23-2007, 05:27 PM

at the end of the day it is being faithful to God and abstaining from what he says we should ,regardless of if it is good or bad blood. even if the blood was totally free of germs and viruses, that is not the issue the issue is taking on board what the bible tells us . Acts 15;28-29

mee · 05-23-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Interseting that they will use IVF treatment. They pick and choose what technology based on nonsense interpretations of the Bible. Personaly I believe anyone who witholds treatment from a child that subsequently dies is guilty of murder.

TE

i think this would be a matter of concience , it is not technology that JW refuse ,it is blood because the bible says to abstain from blood. Acts 15;28-291. A Baby Boom Through Assisted Reproduction - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Assisted reproductive technology has given hope to many infertile couples who want a child. Does it matter which method or procedure is chosen?

2. Infertility: The Choices, the Issues - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
What are the ethical and moral implications of assisted reproductive techniques?

LeoSalinas22 · 05-23-2007, 06:16 PM

above all, mee, i have to say i in my heart completely agree with you. one scripture comes to mind always saying:
"man shall not live on bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
do we need "bread" to live? yes. does it mean that we should break God's Laws to survive at all costs? no. God's Law is more important than our very lives. but try explaining that to someone. they will think you are insane. Christ Himself says:
"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall losehis life shall preserve it."
yep, i am officially insane! just like the little hyper midgets that are always running around in my house. oh gosh, their my kids! i would rather be like a child for it is written:
"Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
i have learned something ever since i got on this forum, mee. people will think we are nuts when we give them the Gospel. but you already knew that. all we can do is "sow in tears, and reap in joy."
you know what? i just noticed this wasn't the christian board! oh well, hope i don't offend anyone.

wil · 05-23-2007, 07:53 PM

What I can't understand on this whole IVF invitro fertilization is...

they take out a bunch of eggs...

you donate some sperm...

they fertilize the eggs...

they implant a half dozen eggs...

So when it comes to all of the anti-abortion advocates what happens with all the extra fertilized eggs?

It seems many many folks alter their religious beliefs when it comes to this procedure.

Tao_Equus · 05-23-2007, 08:11 PM

Mee,

Quote:

it is a known fact that those who dont have blood recover much quicker than the one who have been given blood .

Sorry but I disagree. And I challenge you to present independent (not watchtower) evidence from recognised experts in the field to support it.

TE

mee · 05-24-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

What I can't understand on this whole IVF invitro fertilization is...

they take out a bunch of eggs...

you donate some sperm...

they fertilize the eggs...

they implant a half dozen eggs...

So when it comes to all of the anti-abortion advocates what happens with all the extra fertilized eggs?

It seems many many folks alter their religious beliefs when it comes to this procedure.

this is why we should reason on the scriptures before going into things , put them all in the womb and the 6 could survive which could lead to problems later on , but throwing some away would be destroying life . but waiting till the time when we are perfect again in the new world , and looking foreward to the time when we can concieve with a perfect body , choices choices choices.

17th Angel · 05-24-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Mee,

Sorry but I disagree. And I challenge you to present independent (not watchtower) evidence from recognised experts in the field to support it.

TE

What's the use.... He won't.... He'll just post something from his beloved information centre.... That tells him what to think and say.....

mee · 05-24-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Mee,

Sorry but I disagree. And I challenge you to present independent (not watchtower) evidence from recognised experts in the field to support it.

TE

The journal Cancer (February 15, 1987) gave the results of a study done in the Netherlands: "In the patients with colon cancer, a significant adverse effect of transfusion on long-term survival was seen. In this group there was a cumulative 5-year overall survival of 48% for the transfused and 74% for the nontransfused patients." Physicians at the University of Southern California followed up on a hundred patients who underwent cancer surgery. "The recurrence rate for all cancers of the larynx was 14% for those who did not receive blood and 65% for those who did. For cancer of the oral cavity, pharynx, and nose or sinus, the recurrence rate was 31% without transfusions and 71% with transfusions."—Annals of Otology, Rhinology & Laryngology, March 1989.

What do such studies suggest regarding transfusions? In his article "Blood Transfusions and Surgery for Cancer," Dr. John S. Spratt concluded: "The cancer surgeon may need to become a bloodless surgeon."—The American Journal of Surgery, September 1986.

17th Angel · 05-24-2007, 11:52 AM

Oh a cut and paste from the JW teaching titled "Blood Transfusions - How safe?" Seriously... You must be very trustworthy... I mean, you do not even know that is fact....